Ever had cable problem and every body around you has a different cable set-up.

I'm just trowing a rock in the pond here, but aren't we ready as a community to standarize things a bit, how about a universal cable (call it DIN) identical at both end with 7 pin for future option such as modeling light, the bulkhead would be a 7 contacts affair used by both on the housing and on the strobe body. I know it's a pipe dream but, imagine a molded cable that would allow swapping accross different brand of flashes and housings. we are at a turning point in flash technology and it's only a matter of time before we have strobes with built-in whatever-TTL, if the strobe manufacturer could only agree on a standard protocol and attribution for the layout of the pins and contacts and even the number of thoses. that would help the end user a lot. I figure with seven or maybe eight pin you can have access to all the function of the differents manufacturer. We could even get cables from manufacturer X to put on housing from manufacturer Y and strobe from manufacturer Z. that mean choice of quality in the selection.

What if you have an old system, no problem, get the Nikonos to DIN or the Ikelite to DIN adapter.

Here is a few sketches for the creative mind...

Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Cheers

OH! and why not double O-rings at each end while were at it !

It should be optical. O-rings are optional; duct tape will do in an emergency. No more flooding problems; lighter, smaller and easier to manage. The technology for doing it this way has been here for a long time. It shouldn't be that hard IF we can get all the equipment makers to standardize. Inon has taken a good first step.

I tought about optical fiber, but you need a transmitter or a built in flash to send a signal and a receiver to decode in the flash, it might be too much for the more craftmanship oriented manufacturer and they are the first one along with the housing manufacturers that should get on board for a thing like this. benefit are lower cost due to manufacturing a single cable design, and add to this profit maker like adapters to convert other cables from Nikonos, Sea&Sea, Ikelite etc...

One thing is sure, Nobody in his/her right mind want's to fabricate the Nikonos V connector if they can afford not to. those pesky spring loaded pins are a nightmare to everybody from the manufacturer to, more important, the user.

The other thing, 5 wire doesn't cut it anymore, the electronic are getting more complex and underwater photography is not for Nikon only anymore. having more wires (better yet, optical fiber) will make life easier for everyone, you just have to agree which of the camera maker get which pin, #1 always for X sync, #2 for ground and the five or six others for whatever function needed by the camera makers.

I'm convinced that optical is the way to go. The Inon optical connectors work well if you don't care about xTTL, and it's does not cost that much more than a set of cables, and that's for an external unit. If you start from scratch and build that into the housing, you'll probably end up saving money.

The electrical to optical conversion is simple compared to decoding the xTTL, if the housing and strobe makers don't want the task, they can contract it out to people like Matthias.

Two wires only for me please (X and ground). Cut down on the bulk and they would be cheaper and more flexible. Also while I am wishing - I would like one that is 8-10ft long. Wet connectors on the housing.

Joking/wishing aside - its a good idea to standardise. The Nikonos cable was standard for a long time, pity that people have been going away from it, often without good reason. I do understand the need for 6 pins for Canon.

Alex

If you don't want TTL. Here's all that you need.

http://inonamerica.com/products.php?produc...dcat=4&subcat=1


edit: wrong link changed

Alex, having a standard cable would open the market for little accessories like wet connector converter and extension cord etc. i would love to see some creative engineering mind going at this project, Mathias, Haben ze en project !

Click to view attachment

The best underwater plugable connectors that I have used are made by Impulse. I use them for suit heaters, video lights and other underwater battery to whatever connectors. I dove with a fellow earlier this year who uses them on his housing for flash sync. The series that I use most can b seen at

http://www.impulse-ent.com/pdfs/IE2.pdf

They are about $50 per connector.

Wow!, I used those on my old Aquatica A3 and oceanic strobes, simple and elegant solution, takes a licking and keep on ticking kind of technology, they are called EO or something. Also available at the time there were the one that Sea&Sea was using many moon ago. That also was a bullet proof solution.


Click to view attachment

SOLD! I'll take 4 DIN cords please.

(stands up in back of room and waves checkbook over his head)

...This will never work... ideas that make sense...

All the best, James

I think this will work, because WE can make the standard.
So when it is availible we can all start using it and the manufacturers will follow.

Subconn already build a whole series of connectors (2 core to a great many - I haven't got their manual in front of me) swappable underwater (each contact has its own 'O' ring), rated to immense depth and with a minimum plug/unplug reliability specification. Some of these could be used for flash - snag is the cost! And cables can be customised!

maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't the S6 system already thinking along these lines?

Rugged cables, DIN type fittings, 6 wires (ok, not quite 7) and multiple o-ring seals?

I think there is a wet version of the S6 out also, which allows TTL flash interchange underwater. The 6th connector allows for modelling light control between compatible housing (Seacam etc.) and flashes such as Subtronic.

Paul - are these the same as the Subconn ones?

Steve

I really don't like the EO connectors. I find that the Impulse connectors make a much more reliable connection.

I haven't looked into the wet connector system as suppliable by Seacam as I've never been asked for one - from the Seacam brochure it does look as though a Subconn connector can be used though. Trouble is the high cost - I can't remember prices as I looked ito this several years ago but then you'd be talking several hundreds of pounds to fit a subcon connector and few people seem to think that the advantage is worth having for that knid of money!

I use a mix of S6 and Nik5 sockets on my own housing - but all running manually. Perhaps I'll look into two core Subconns and see what is possible, although a brief look at their folder indicates that they use a 7/16" x 20UNF thread whilst I think that Nik 2 sockets run a roughly a 10mm diameter threaded hole. So this may be tricky depending on housing and your thoughts on enlarging or drilling another hole!

Hello,

Well ... I am an ingineer and I have to say ... I don't think a standard will hapen. All the companies want you to buy their cables for $50 - $100 not for $2.99 from Radio Shack...

Just look at all the standards that have been created .... Why do we have so many standards for cell phones, why do we have different batteries for evry (damned) laptop, why do we have more serial protocols that I can name, ... standards are a great thing but they are never going to be respected by everybody.

How many wires we need on the cable ... well ...
Is everything digital? I think so. Than we need 2 wires, ground and signal.
Even better why do we need wires?
Infrared is a good solution or if you are thinking that the sun can get in the way and saturate your receiver why not radio.
If the wireless pressure sensors work for dive computers, why not something like that for camera strobe communication?
How fast should the communication be? I don't know but I don't think the ammount of data that has to be transmitted is that big so I don't see any problem there.

So ... let's build one.
Vlad

Well that is the spirit.
It is easy to name at least as many examples, where standards did work.

The advantage of this system is that we are not dependent of the negotiations between manufacturers since there are so many adapters availible.

I think that there is a good chance with the European housings manufacturers going to a standard: Subal, Seacam, Sealux, UK-Germany, Hugyphot etc (as they are all quite matey and all speak German).

I think it is unlikely that they will be full international collaboration with N. American and Japanese brands.

Alex

I'm sure we could learn a bit of german at Aquatica,especially if that helps the underwater photographer (including me) .

The housing manufacturer's role is quite simple, all they have to do is provide a hole of the proper size for the "DIN" or whatever bulkhead, oh! and to make sure it's water tight .

About time the industry got together for some simple day to day standarization, it's also time to bid the old Nikonos type connector good bye.

Gutten tag, scheun unterwasser werk, Her Mustard. you see not that hard

It is very funny that you are talking about a standardized Cables, the probability that German manufatures adopt the standard and then call it "DIN".

DIN means "Deutsche Industrie Norm" (German Industry Norm) .
Thats where also the "DIN" in the DIN Valves at Scuba tanks come from.

DIN is a Standardization Institute like ISO only on German National Level.

Simon

Grüße aus Deutschland ;-)

Before you do this I recommend reading the Essay "The Awful German Language" by Mark Twain.

I'm happy that German is my mother tongue because it is a beautiful and very creative language. But I wouldn't try to learn it under other circumstances. It has more exceptions than rules.

The reasonning behind the name was to give it a catchy name that's easy to remember, and DIN fitting on valves are associated with a higher standard of performance, aside from the fact a cable called "yoke" would scare the hell out of me

But ISO, hey good idea! where going somewhere with this, I like that.

A nice 1.9 meter tall blonde called Regula was a set of circumstance good enough for me a few years ago exceptions! try french, it is an exceptional language .

Given that today's dSLRs have a great deal more potential than is being used underwater (remote operation, power-in leads, Firewire or USB output) I would say that a larger hole might be quite useful in many housings (for cameras that support these) - after all an adapter plug could easily be fitted, and a variety of adapters would make fitting of any existing or new cables, or even multi core cables with far more wires than currently utilised. The use of a webcam to view through the eyepiece is an idea that I've often wondered about, but this would require yet more cabling, etc.

That said, this would be overkill for many users but might be useful on the high end housings.

It would be wonderful if all housing manufactures used the same connectors. Well I would bet that no manufacture would change quickly. This is why I am retrofitting my housings with these connectors and building my own strobe cables. Since I'm using Ikelite DS-125 strobes, I will need to attach Ike's connector to my strobe cables.

http://www.seacon-usa.com/Products/DryMate/rubber_molded.htm

Using all Seacon connectors, haven't decided to have it dry or wet mateable. I do plan on having more than 6 conductors. I am leaning towards 12 conductors plugs and bulkheads, to allow for future addons,

A big plus is that majority of the SeaCon connectors are field repairable.

If everyone would follow the same connectors I use, I can get the prices down. Once I get everything planned out, I will let everyone know the prices and will give the "Wetpixel Member" discounts.



Curtis

After 20+ years with various connectors. I find this thread intresting. Most of my shooting with aquatica housings has been with nelson connectors/bulkhead. They look like the ones refered to as seas and sea on page one of this thread.These can be connected or taken apart wet just as EO the other system of wet connections. The new improved EO style is what Dave talks about. These two cord systems are 2 wire non ttl and have been around forever.They are solid and work well. As far as ttl Ike has the best system I've seen- a positive plug in with 1/2 solid plug line up. The worst by far is the nikonos- spring loaded pins and blind notch line up as well as one water drop ruins the system all adds up to a bad dream. This is the system that most of ttl user's are stuck with. I know subal uses a 6-7 pin setup but I have not seen it close up- As far a standard- I think its a good dream but just that-a dream. If any manufacture/engineer is out there reading this please check out the best of the Ike system and the worst of the nikonos and come up with a better system. Mark

They could do it if the manufacturers could agree on it. That's how the MIDI standard was developed in 81 or 82, allowing synthesizers from any company to "talk to one another and speak the same language."

Dema is coming this fall, maybe a late cocktail with a few company engineer and a lots of napkins, many a good idea was drawn on these littles pieces of paper

CD, DVD, telephone plugs, 4 track cassetes, AA batteries, tripod screws, 35mm film, Compact flash card, door knob hole size, just to name a fews existing standard, when there is a will there is a way, let the power that be....

... let there be light.

Amen