http://www.pma-show.com/review/canon/001_E...l_rebel_xt.html

Just as I predicted: Plastic 20D with lower frame rate and smaller buffer.

Oh man that thing is ugggggleeeee

I'm presuming that there will be dancing in the streets of Inner Canonia tonight

(yes, I know that pointing out how ugly the Rebel XT is constitutes an ad homineum attack, the last hiding place of the baseless scoundrel)

Small is beautiful: 10% lighter and 25% smaller by volume. The bad news is that it's unlikely to fit very well in the 300D housings.

Burried in the text:

"new EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM lens"

Uh... That 60 macro sounds great, now if only Canon produces a 10mm fisheye, I will seriously consider the 20D.

Glad I held off on a 50mm purchase...that should be a very nice lens...and the USM - exquisite

~Matt Segal

I have heard that a cropped sensor Canon fisheye is not far off.

That 60mm is spot on - as long as it goes to 1:1 on a 1DS.

If it won't fit in a 300D housing, will this camera fit in a 20D housing?

Alex

New 60mm Macro is EF-S only (1.6 crop). No 1D(s) usage. (EF-S = DX in Nikon language :wink: )

Basically I don't see any reason to spend money for a macro lens with small image circle when there could be any intention for a 1.3 or FF camera in the future. All the full frame capable macro lenses perform without a doubt extremely good on APS-C cameras as well.

But there is one thing left: the EF-S 60mm features USM which none of the 50mm Sigma or Canon lenses offers. I assume it is not the cheapish micro motor USM but the fast & true ring type USM including full time manual override.

Julian

Hard to say Herb. Everything looks in about the same place on parts of it just wish we could see the back. To me it looks like the left side is shrunk. If so and the rest of the back remained the same we may get lucky.

I think though I would go to a 20D for frame rate if upgrading myself. I also did not notice a price but assume in lines with the old version. 60mm might tweek my interest for the USM FTMF as obviously the Sigma does not have it.

here is a link apparently

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021703...fs60mmmacro.asp

Finally, a shorter Canon macro with USM and 1:1...

Ike - how long until you have a flatport out?

~Matt Segal

Canon really are starting to introduce a lot of great cameras these days and at some point I can see the housing manufacturers turning round and saying "No" to particular models. Just as it was in the film days, it was easy to get housings for certain models of camera, but others were generally ignored. As UW photographers we had to choose cameras that were already supported or confirmed to be. We did not buy the latest camera and expect there to be a housing for it (the EOS 3 was an example of a great camera that was generally ignored by housing manufacturers).

This was/is not because they were/are bad cameras - it is just bad business for the housing manufacturers. It is just too expensive for them to design and build yet another housing. I think the S3 is a good current example.

Hypothetically maybe a manufacturer will state that they will do housings for the 300D and 20D but not the 350D. Afterall it will be very expensive to design and make a new housing for the 350D - much easier to tell the consumer to choose between the 300D and the 20D if they want to use it underwater.

I could understand the manufacturers wanting to get housings out there for all the niches of DSLRs in the early days - but as the market matures I can see them cutting back on the number of lines they support.

Alex

To back up my argument I had a quick look on digideep.

Here are some cameras based around the N80/F80. Some are very much more popular than others.

Fuji S2 - 8 housings
Fuji S3 - 3 housings (2 are Ewa marine bags - some may be in development)
Nikon D100 - 14 housings
Nikon D70 - 12 housings
Kodak - 2 housings

And looking at the mid-range EOS chronologically - the numbers of different housings does seem to be going down, although I'd expect 2 or 3 more for the 20D soon:

Canon D60 - 11 housings
Canon 10D - 9 housings
Canon 20D - 4 housings (some may be in development)

Alex

Guys,

The buttons may be very close on some 300D housings. The other digital camera sites have back views showing very similar locations for the 4 way controller, etc. Everything most UW shooters wanted, adjustable AF and metering, higher built in flash (need to find specs if this is now controllable output which would be great!) plus eTTL2 .....

Mfrs. like Ikelite will shine being able to make a new back with button locations slightly different and ramp up production to house new models quickly......

As Herb Ko points out I think the camera will be another hit, especially being lighter and smaller........Works for me traveling plus the cost savings of buying 2 bodies....

The 60mm macro will be a great boon to APS-C sensors, too. Although EF-S needs to be mounted on a Rebel XT, 300D or 20D.....I still contend the 1.3 or even full frame sensors will never get to critical mass due to investment and market size. Developing EF-S and DX lenses is where the mfrs. are obviously putting their engineering efforts due to the potential payoff.

Overall, I expect Canon to be pumping these things out as fast as they did the original Digital Rebel.

David Haas
Ikelite dealer
Founder PUPHU (Plastic Underwater Photography Housing Users:)

About the EFS 60mm macro:

MSRP: US$449.00
Availability: In stores in April (just in time for my trip to Bali).

The dark side is calling... James, I just read your upgrade saga and I have to confess that I am tempted.

I put the kit lens on my DRebel and took a couple pics of it with my other camera and scaled it to compare with the pics in the pma-show link. It does not look good. The XT is quite a bit smaller.

I agree. When the 300D came out it was no question to design a housing as it was the only affordable 1000 bucks DSLR. Going for a higher model required spending almost the double amount of money for the body.
As underwater shooters are kind of "advanced" users and are used to pay a lot of money for their gear I personally wouldn't save 200 or 300 bucks on the camera body - I would chose the 20D over the 350D (Digital Rebel XT) and add 200 bucks when I have to spent 2000 or 3000 on the housing anyway.
The lower end cameras were ignored first by housing manufactures during film days. Might see the same tendency in the future with digital.

Julian

Figures...

Is there a side by side comparison of the 20D and the new XT yet? Curious.

There is a very positive DP Review preview article online. It included this image of the 300D and 350D side by side.

You can get a Sigma 50mm for Canon for $250. Does 1:1 as well. I don't get the enthusiasm for this new EF-S lens or why they bothered. Why didn't they replace their 50mm macro lens with a more capable EF 60mm instead? Personally I'd rather have the 50mm focal length.

An unimportant and irrelevant thing is Canon's tendency to make the imaging chips a few millimetre frictions smaller during the last two releases:

10D/300D: 22.7 x 15.1 (crop 1.59)
20D: 22.5 x 15.0 (crop 1.60)
350D: 22.2 x 14.8 (crop 1.62)

More important might be the smaller viewfinder. The viewfinder size data is based on the imaging chip size:

10D/330D: 95% frame coverage, Magnification: 0.88x
Resulting viewfinder image diagonal: 24mm

20D: 95% frame coverage, Magnification: 0.9x
Resulting viewfinder image diagonal: 24.3mm

350D: 95% frame coverage, Magnification: 0.8x
Resulting viewfinder image diagonal: 21.3mm

That means Canon has shrunk the 350D viewfinder to Nikon D70 size (21,2mm) which is noticeable smaller than the 10D/300D.

I use the Sealux GD viewfinder for my 10D. So I don’t know how a cropped viewfinder performs with standard housing optics. But the 350D finder is even smaller.

Battery: I use the more powerful BP-512 (instead BP-511) for underwater and it lasts longer than required. The small battery in the 350D is the same as in my powershot S-60. A DSLR needs less energy than a point and shoot because the display is not used that much. Canon states the new 350D electronics even require less energy. I hope the small battery would last for several dives.

A new housing seems to be required as well. Doesn't look to promising to fit in a 300D housing. Maybe a Pentax *ist housing is recommended
Personally I can not see any housed 300D owner upgrading to a 350D with a new housing. Beside a very few advantages (1.7 Megapixels, a few custom functions) you spent money on drawbacks as well.
from dpreview preview:



Julian

That's a great image. Is there a similar one of the 350D and the 20D?

Thanks for posting that shadowed image that is a great look.

I won't be changing up any time soon. I am happy with the Rebel underwater for now and with the, how do I put this, "special firmware", it has met my expectations.

Now for topside, fps and write times may be of interest but I have some lenses in line before a new camera body.

Here is a 20Da apparently

http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm/hurl/id|909

After reading the dpreview preview I'm very impressed with the update to the Rebel. It amazes me how much value has entered the DSLR market in so little time. In addition to more megapixels I think more exciting is the fact that Canon has fixed most of the shortcommings of the Rebel.

Adding FEC and metering modes is at the top of the list.

I think Ikelite at least should develop a housing for this one. While I don't expect anyone to update their 300D for this one I think there are still many who haven't jumped to the DSLR yet and this is a lot of value for little money. Those that are upgrading from the 300d will want the 20d to get a more significant improvement. If it were me I'd wait at least another generation for a more significant improvement.

Here is another comparison I have just made. I took the pics from dpreview as well and transformed the images to fit the original proportions

My reaction is nothing but :cry: