My brand new shiny Subal for the D10 just arrived, thanks to some fine work at Backscatter. We are leaving tonight for Utila (I know I am breaking all the rules about new housings and first dives with them far from home) and I will see how the beast behaves. For now I have a single YS 90 strobe and am looking to upgrade. Mostly I will be shooting macro (Canon 100 and Sigma 50) but a little with the Canon 16-35. What in your common and humble opinions should I either add or upgrade to?

thanks

BVA

The YS90 is fine for macro. The best power and coverage for it's size and weight is the Inon Z220. It's about twice the output of the YS90 at 1/2 the size.

Is it the YS90 Duo? How many power settings does it have?

I would start at f22 1/125th and full power on the strobe. If the shots are too dark, either move the strobe in close, or go to f19 or even f16.

If the shots are overexposed, start by moving the strobe back. Then if it's still overexposed, either go to 1/2 power on the strobe, or up to f27 or f32.

Otherwise, don't change anything when shooting macro. And most importantly, dive safe and have fun!

Cheers
James

James, sorry for not being clear. I am having no troubles with the YS90 strobe, my macro stuff is mostly exposed the way I like. The issue is that I would like to move up to dual strobes and was wondering what people recommend. I don't mind selling the YS90 or using it and another but I am interested in seeing what other people are doing.

Bill

My 2 Inon Z220 will light up anything I need and they are light & compact....in other words...I agree with Herb!

You will certainly be happy w/ the Inon's.

For workhorse use and a powerful broad beam, I use 2 Ike SS200's for my wideangle with the 12-24mm. Good color temp, coverage, and reliability for me so far. I find that for ISO200 shooting, sometimes I need the power and the Ikes are about 2x as powerful as the Inons.

For macro shooting I wish I had the Inons sometimes. They are powerful and have a lot of nice features.

Cheers
James

2 SS200's & 2 DS125's! I would hate to schlep your gear James :shock: [/code]

Sarah shoots a D100 (which is ISO200) so she gets the DS125's now. That's one good thing about the D100 is you can literally "get away" with strobes that are 1/2 as powerful.

I guess I should change my signature line, eh?

Cheers
James

Would the inons be comparable to DS125s on a D100 rig?

They don't recycle quite as fast as the Ikes and they are not quite as powerful. But they are close.

Cheers
James

But the Inon Z200's are about 1/3 the size & weight of the DS125's

For quick moving subjects the recycle time of the D125 cannot be beat. They are small and light enough to use for macro. Having owned some S&S 90's I can tell you that for wide angle the D125's are clearly superior. I like the color temperature a lot better as well though with a raw converter I'm not sure that is as important as it was for film. Do the Inons have the angle of coverage of the 125?

According to their respective websites, the Ike covers 90 degrees and the Inon 100 degrees.

I'd also be interested in hearing how the inons do in a WA situation. Any images of the tray/arm setup and WA shots using it would be great.

Re "According to their respective websites, the Ike covers 90 degrees and the Inon 100 degrees."

Actually for Ikelite it's 100 degree angle of coverage with diffuser.

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/ss_dig125.html

We discussed the coverage of the Z220 awhile back. I showed this shot as an example:



2 Inon Z220, Inon dome lens. Strobes about 1.5' from the camera.

Question for the Inon aficionados. Can the Z220 strobes work with a Subal 10D housing? and if so do I need to rewire the bulkheads. Does canon support the shutter activated focus light, or can I build a simple circuit that would address it if not.
thanks
BVA

Does this housing have the socket that the d100 had, allowing to switch between ttl and manual strobes?

My guess, without having looked at your housing, is that hooked up to the manual bulkhead you will get manual operation. The shutter activated focus and modeling lights will not function, so purchasing the less expensive z220s is logical.

Ryan: Is this a Canon problem or a bulkhead wiring problem. I can fix the bulkhead wiring problem pretty easily I think if the features can be addressed by the Canon hardware.

Bill

For Z-220 and Canon dSLRs, Just block out the pins per Ike's page here:

http://ikelite.com/web_pages/sync_cord_d1x.html

If you connect 5 pins to a Canon dSLR the strobe will fire, but ... the camera can act funny (not letting you change shutter speed, etc.). I don't remember the exact problem, but it went away when I blocked out all but two pins.

Canon doesn't work with the focus light. Some people wire up lights that shine into the Inon's light sensor to trigger the modeling lights, but it's not convenient. I use an external modeling light.

Doesn't the Canon hot-shoe have 6 pins and the strobe has 5? I think the INON strobes were designed to work with Nikon compatible cameras which send vastly different signals to the flash.

Nikon land flashes (and Canon's too probably) use one of the pins to look for an AF-assist signal from the camera. I think that Inon underwater strobes must look for that signal on one of the pins from the hotshoe.

So which one is it? Is it the same as from a Canon camera? If not, does the housing bulkhead need special cross-over wiring? Lots of questions here.

Cheers
James

It has 6 pins, but no one passes 6 pins through except for the 6-pin bulkhead that Seacam uses. Nikonos connectors pass 5 pins. Chances are, the hotshoe connector only has 2 pins, anyway (one pin + ground, that is). If that's the case, the INON strobe will work just fine.

Not sure which pin carries the AF-assist signal. I didn't want to mess with the hotshoe, since you can damage your camera that way -- in theory.

Is there a noticable difference in harshness/warmth between the ds125s and the z220s as far as the light itself and its falloff?

Hey guyz,

it's been overdue but I volunteer to write an article to sort out the different strobe connectors which are available on the market. I can provide also sample shots of different wire gear I have seen during my uw photo time.

In Europe S6 and N5 (also entitled Nikonos V) are very common next to fibre optics. But I'd be glad to get some photos of Ikelite bulkheads. I also have photos of the different connectors offered by Sea&Sea which I can include.

I have to do this homework anyway, as we are about to upgrade digideep.com with a long awaited database on uw strobes and strobe housings. I'd be glad to enrich wetpixel with an article about the recurring strobe wiring problem.

Cheers, Andi

Eric et al:
I am pretty sure that your contention that this can't work with Canon must be wrong, since the Sea and Sea guys get a shutter activated focus light to work on their D60 housing and probably on the 10D housing as well. It might be inconvenient or difficult to get cables made but it appears that it must be possible if S&S can do it. Of course this was through a different bulkhead but the signals must be there somehow.

BVA

I'm not sure that shutter activated focus light on the Sea and Sea housings actually works.

I have the Sea and Sea housing for the D100 and it has a port on front for the light cable to hook up - but it doesn't go anywhere inside the housing. I'll have a look at it tonight. Of course Canon may be different.

Cheers
James

On the Canon version, there is a cable from the port to a little black box, which is then connected to a PC connection. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the shutter activated focus light does work for the Canon, but that at $225 or so, it's not something I'm looking to purchase.

The canon version does indeed work for the D60. A friend has the shutter activated light. I would have bought one but Sea and Sea had no plans to import them anymore. Anyway the point is that it can be done, but according to Inon, canon cameras are not supported by the Z220. So Eric you were right. Now the question is what setup should I think about if I want to be able to take only the camera (and a backup light of course) on night dives.

thanks for a very constructive discussion.

Hmm. I used to have that little black box in the D60 housing that Simon Klaiber now has. I ripped it out because I needed the PC connector to use with a remote set-up.

Re: black box and INON Strobes -- even if you had the black box, it's a separate connector, so you'd have to cut the wire from it to the front bulkhead, pull out the third pin (and possibly the ground?) and wire it into the strobe's bulkhead, along-wide the wires that go to the hotshoe.

Not convenient. And anyway, that same AF assist signal must be being passed through the Canon hotshoe as well, since external Canon strobes know when to illuminate the assist beam.

That's what I thought, I will play around with the hotshoe and see if I can figure out which signals are on which pins. Eric, what modeling light are you using.
BVA

I'm using the Light & Motion Mod light.

Heard they stopped making them for some reason, but I don't know the details -- or whether that is even accurate. Anyone have the scoop?

it's true. check out my post in the lighting section with a response from LMI on when the new model will be out.

Redesigned for increased reliability. Replacement lights will ship before new lights, but should be rolling out the door in April...

Inon strobes modeling lights are shutter activated, so unless you held down half-press the whole time, you'd be in the dark after 8 seconds.

The modeling lights on Ikelite DS-125 & SS200, and S&S YS-350 are always on. If you can dive with only the 4AA equivalent Z-220 mod light, set the strobe to optical mode, and run an optical cable to a small AA or AAA flashlight stashed somewhere on the tray. The strobe will still fire electrically.

At the following URL, the pin labeled 3.3k Ohm Resistor is the trigger for the shutter activated focus lights.

http://www.ikelite.com/faq/faq_syncwiring.html

This is also the line that tells your camera what sort of strobe is attached, and must be covered for Sea & Sea & Ikelite strobes.

Does a Nexus housing error when Sea & Sea or Ikelite strobes are attached that are wired to all five pins?

I wired the D100 through my Aquatica S2 housing's 5-pin bulkhead and it error'd with an SS200 attached. Dunno how the Sea and Sea is wired 'cause I only have a 3-pin bulkhead (cough cough).

Cheers
James

Should be able to fix that scratch in your throat this week...and it will be wired with all five pins.

I have a slightly different question regarding strobe. I bought Nikon D70 recently and am waiting for Sea and Sea housing to get here. In the mean time, I already have one Ikelite DS125 strobe that I use with my C5050/Ikelite housing. I am thinking of adding a 2nd strobe but I am not sure if I should go with DS50, another DS125 or go up to 200 or perhaps combination of the Ikelite with Inon 220Z. I am shooting mostly macro but will also be using the 12-24mm/domeport here and there. I want to be able to use the same 2 strobe set up for both macro and WAL as I don't want to carry a lot of xs gear (getting a hernia right at the beginning of a divetrip is not my idea of fun ). Any input would be appreciated. I love the Ikelite support through the local dealer here as well as Ikelite customer service but the Inon compact size does catch my attention as well.