According to a couple threads at DP Review, Canon France has leaked the specs for the 1D replacement, named the 1D Mk II. Here's the specs according to a couple PDFs that were listed briefly:

8.2 MPixel CMOS sensor with either 3 or 8.5 fps
40 frame buffer for JPG and 20 for RAW
same AF and metering
ISO 100-1600 with 50 and 3200 option
NP-E3 battery
1/250 sync
1/8000 max shutter speed
CF and SD card slot
Firewire and USB 1.1

Find one of the full threads here.

Also of note, 2 new lenses, a 70-300 IS DO and a 28-300 IS L.

Take it all with a grain of salt I suppose.

I saw that too Tom.

Also: 1.3x cropped sensor.

Cheers
James

Yeah, forgot to mention that part (1.3x). If it maintains the exact same body as the 1D/s, it might be a nice option instead of the $7k for the 1Ds.

Same body as 1Ds? Does that mean Seacam could do a housing? Sounds like a D2H killer.

While I couldn't imagine myself getting a D2H, I can see lots of non-action/photojournalist opting for this camera if these specs are indeed correct.

Yup, looks like the body is exactly the same from the very limited pics I've seen. There's some speculation that this is a stop-gap to counter the D2H, or that there's another version also coming out that hasn't been leaked with even better specs. So yes, that would mean that Seacam would probably already have a housing. I also noticed on the Subal site that they are making a 1Ds housing, which would be awesome.

I wouldn't buy a D2H or a 1D, but with 8Mp, 1.3x crop, and a significantly better AF than the D60 / 10D, I could certainly see me buying this. Ok, so me buying this is probably already a given. It's more like "if I house this within the next year".

This is exciting, if the price is reasonable. The 1Ds is superb, but there's a big, big gap between this and the 10D in terms of price.
A camera like this with good AF and smaller FOV crop would be great for underwater.

My main concern is that 1Ds housings are not exactly cheap. It will be interesting to see if IKE/Aquatica et al decide to support it.

I also wouldn't be rushing to buy a D2H (Nikon/Canon rivalry aside). But even as a non-photojournalist, the 1D Mk 2 specs as above would be very tempting.

This news is what I have been waiting for. Can't wait to see the reviews and the street price. For me if it is under $3500 and it performs well with no problems, I will go for it. I am disapointed though about it not having the Lithium Ion battery. Though with the CMOS sensor I guess it will use less power, but that might be eaten up by the 2" LCD. I am not really wild about the 1.6 crop on the 10D but could live with the 1.3 crop of the 1D.

Keith

My view on the 1.3 crop is that it gets wider than the 1.6 by a decent amount, but still avoids the worst areas of most lenses by not getting to the outside edges. Yes, LiIon would be nice, but with the CMOS imager, the old MiMH is rated to last 1200 images.

Aquatica may or may not support, but I'd bet that you could get an Ikelite housing made. The 1D body would probably fit in the MD series housing, which is big, but so's the 1D, right?

Of course, we're still assuming that these are real specs.

Here's someone's experience with the new camera:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...message=7434708

I put two pictures together -- one of the back of the 1D/1Ds, and one of the back of the 1D Mk II. From photos of the cameras from all angles, it looks like there is one change that will affect those of us (all 20 or whatever) who have 1Ds housings. There is an extra button between the Quality and White Balance button. Not such a big deal. If I flood my 1Ds, I'll just make sure I'm in RAW mode before I jump in.

Note that the photos of the 1DMkII vs 1Ds are taken from different heights, so the elements on the back don't line up properly. At first, I thought it was slightly different, but now it looks the same.

Man, you and Adam didn't waste any time w/ this one Eric...:-)

Cheers
James

First, I agree with what Tom said about the crop and all.

I wouldn't expect Aquatica to build a housing for it. They just finished the housing for the hot selling 300D. I think the D70 would be next.

The higher priced cameras have smaller market share. I don't think it makes sense right now. If someone has the resources to buy a 1Ds or 1D, I don't think saving a couple of grand on a housing is their highest priority. Heck, they spend almost as much as an Aquatica for the viewfinder.

About the whining. Man, I peeked at some threads on DPReview. Complaints, complaints. People are looney. They wanted a full frame 8-11 megapixel, 1/500 synch, ISO6400, etc., etc. AND a price of $3500. Maybe they should go back to film. This is definitely far better than the D2H. I think this camera will get some strong cross-over from non PJs and Sports photogs.

Aquatica are anticipating the arrival of the F6 as a +possibilty for their next big project, but i'm sure the 70 will be a goer too.

Bummer they decided not to house the 14n, but UK G are doing that!

Speaking from my point of view, saving a couple grand on a housing for the new 1D would definitely be a priority for me. Assuming I get one, I doubt that I'll be able to get it housed any time soon because of the high cost of the available housings. Just to get into the Seacam it looks like about $6500 between housing and ports, which is a bit above my reach. Even owning S&S ports, the S&S housing is somewhere around $6000 custom made, if it's even available. If Aquatica were to bring something to the table for less, I'd be more likely to house it. We'll see though.

The whining is funny to me. For each 1D owner who's complaining about the new version, it's one less person in front of me on the waiting list...

I think that in some aspects it's better than the D2H, but I'd also say in some ways it's not. BUT, since a D2H isn't something I would even think about right now, I don't really care.

Anyway, enough rambling...

DPReview has the skinny....

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos1...kii/default.asp

Price is listed at about US$4,500, which seems steep to me, but I'm not sure if that's MSRP or MAP(street) yet. Must be nice to be Canon and feel that they have no competition and can price about US$1,200 higher than Nikon.

Hi everyone,

it's no longer a leak. This morning Canon Germany made the new 1D Mk II official. We'll be out waiting for housings to appear :-)

Damn, that aint cheap! Particularly in Australia, where we pay way too much for camera gear.

I'd like something better than the 10D, but this is three times the price. I guess it's half way between 10D and 1Ds.

Would be a fine camera underwater though - 17-40L should still work well with 1.3 FOV crop, and would be a handy focal length. Plus I want better AF for topside.

I'm actually really surprised at the cost at this point. I know they did a lot of work other than the chip, but they are reusing a lot as well. I was expecting a much lower cost frankly. Still, if you look at this price versus what the 1Ds is, it makes slightly more sense.

The more I think about it, the more I believe this would be a great body to house. Oh well, it'll have to wait a while...

After 30 years as a loyal Nikon enthusiast I’ve jumped ship and ordered my First Canon camera..After reading how well the images looked at ISO 800 I’m sold, I just hope it’s true ?

Marc

The one sample image I saw at ISO 1600 looked pretty nice considering, and would be awesome for B&W available light shots of wrecks.

Congrats on your transition to the "not so easily housed"-side.

Marc - Welcome.

Where did you pre-order your camera?

"We know where you live Marc Furth..."

Marc, Marc, Marc... :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :cry:

That means his S2 is for sale! Who's got dibs?

Cheers
James

Damn, I wish Nikon would design a decent high-end DSLR. I wouldn't buy it, of course, but it would make Canon sell the 1D MkII at a better price!

I really want this camera for topside shooting, but the problem with lusting after new technology for underwater is that the housing lag is so great.

I think the body shape is the same as the 1D 'Mk 1', not sure about the button placement. There are photos at Rob Galbraith's site. Who is currently making 1D housings? Is Ikelite going to support this camera? Will it fit into their housing once they make it?

This camera is made for underwater use (except for the pricetag, which is way too much for anything that is going to be submerged in salt water!). 17-40L or 16-35L plus 1.3 FOV sensor plus 8+ megapixels would do the trick nicely.

I should have said Ritz pre-order, well at least I’m number two on that list.
The only thing that could change my mind would be a new S3 Pro or what ever sounded better in the spec dept.

Last weekend I shot a few really good pictures under are local pier. I used my S2 and my 14 mm Sigma lens. I was not using a flash and set my ISO to 400. The pictures came out great because of the subject material was awesome, 50 or so schooling Snook under the pier. I chased them around the pier for 6 hours, five different dives at 18 feet.

My point is, the pictures look good but a little to grainy for my taste. If this Canon camera pans out, I’ll be one happy camper.

I also order the new 28-300 mm lens, I’m not sure what lens I’ll buy for underwater use ?

Marc

1. Seacam - makes a 1Ds housing
2. Sea & Sea - supposedly you can custom order a 1Ds housing - costs as much as a Seacam
3. Subal - announced on their website and preliminary pricing is available - less than the other two
4. Ikelite - no idea, but I would imagine you could get one custom made

The body is supposed to be the same. One difference is that there are 3 buttons below the lower lcd screen instead of two. Not sure what difference it would make. No matter what, you're looking at a minimum of $5-$6K to get it housed if you buy one of the available housings, maybe less if Ike can make one.



1. Canon 16-35L / 17-40L - i like the 17-40 topside, and I'll be trying it out next week
2. Canon 50mm macro or 100mm macro - got the 100mm, trying it next week
3. Sigma or Canon 15mm fisheye - don't have it
4. Sigma 12-24? - don't know if anyone has gotten one setup yet
5. Sigma 14mm - i had one, didn't really like it though

Hope this helps...

There's a photo of the two cameras together on page 1 of this thread.

There's a good preview at robgalbraith.com. The camera's official now (Canon US has announced it), so we're not talking about speculation re: the specs any more - unlike when we started this thread! Things change fast.

Housing price would definitely be a consideration - just because I'd consider spending $4500 on a camera doesn't mean I'd spend an unlimited amount on a housing to put it in!

Damn it, Canon has just about convinced me that I need to buy this baby:

http://canonusapressroom.com/images/1DMark...IWhitePaper.doc

And one more snippet of info:

I quote Chuck Wetfall from Canon USA (from the galbraith forums)

"As I've mentioned in another post, the biggest benefit of the SD card in this particular camera is the fact that it could be incorporated without changing the size of the outer camera body. This is crucially important in terms of controlling manufacturing costs and time to market. It's also beneficial to photographers who've invested in underwater housings for EOS-1Ds and EOS-1D for the same reason. The other benefits of instant backup or extended shooting capacity apply regardless of the secondary card format."

It's very kind of Canon to consider underwater photogs when making design decisions. I'm pleasantly suprised!

Wow, this is quite a camera! I think it is especially significant because it obliterates the line between film and digital - no longer do we need to choose between resolution/image quality and speed! Even with all the anticipation, I don't think anyone expected 8MP at the full 8fps! I thought it would offer variable fps depending on adjustable rez. How will they keep from cannibalizing 1ds sales? Must be a higher rez version on the way if they want to justify their $8000 flagship.

Perhaps Canon feels they have optimized the 1D body and we'll see fewer body changes in future models - that would be great for us all - although I'm sure the housing mfrs prefer that they move buttons around the same body!

I am blown away by this camera, and frustrated that Nikon seems light years from providing speed and hi rez in the same body. I've been shooting kitesurfing an sailboards topside and longing for a faster camera. D2H looks pointless now, unless it goes awfully cheap! An S3 might be our only hope, but I doubt it will come on an F5 or f100 chasis. I'd love to switch systems right now, but the wallet tells me to remain patient, and just take pics. My D100 is a great cam (albeit slow), and Canon's reputation for quality control worries me somewhat. I hope there is a surprise at PMA that brings Nikon to the plate, but more than any time in the history of the Dslr, I think Canon has taken a huge advantage here. Maybe Kodak will save the day - scary...

F6!

I'm shocked that they even mention UW photogs as being considered! There is rumor of another Canon dSLR at PMA, but nobody's sure what. I'd be a little surprised if they had another one so soon, more likely at Photokina in October.



As in "F6 in 2006!" Maybe if Nikon announces it in October, they'l get it to consumers by then!!

Subal had one on for the 1Ds at the BOOT Exibihition. Their Pricelist says 4450 € incl. Taxes

Simon

If you ask around, in the US, the Subal housing goes for around $4,400 US. My $5-6k range was inclusive of ports for adding the 100mm macro and 17-40L zoom lens. Not cheap no matter how you slice it, even when you have the ports already.

I doubt they considered it for an instant. Canon mentioning it only proves they're aware of it and know how to use it in their marketing spin. A hundred existing housings for the 1Ds are unlikely to generate incremental demand for 1D MkII's. Between the two, the 1Ds appears to be the better underwater camera cost-aside. I'm hoping this new camera precipitates a drop in 1Ds prices.

I'm hoping this new camera precipitates a drop in 1Ds prices.[/quote]

Sounds like this camera has you "on the fence," too. In my view, this may be the "switch" camera for many Nikonians. I really do prefer Nikon's approach to digital - I don't need a new camera every 13months as Canon would prefer, but when I wait several years I expect more than the D2H - and Canon has shown that it can be done.

I still prefer Nikon's quality control (though it seems to be slipping), and love their wide angle digital options, but 1.3X isn't that bad and it is a reasonable trade off for blinding speed and hi rez.

I'm only hoping that this swing in the pendulum will eventually be countered - I can't afford new lenses!

Why's that Craig? Not trying to be contentious, just curious. I'm assuming FF and more pixels, but the AF on the MkII is supposed to be improved, the 1.3x will prevent having to deal with the fringes of some lenses, noise is supposed to be down, battery life is improved top 1200 shots (in theory), and it also offers ISO 50.

Thoughts?

1D Mk2 also has a new flash exposure system (ETTL2). So now that ETTL has been almost worked out, the housing manufacturers can start working on a new puzzle!

The 1Ds certainly has some advantages, but with the current pricing and the numerous advantages the 1DMk2 has over it's older sibling, I can't see many people buying a 1Ds now.

In the Canon white paper I linked to above, Canon explains how kind they've been as this camera is worth $6000!!! According to them, they're letting you have it at a bargain price! :?

In terms of their kind consideration for underwater photographers, that line isn't official Canon PR spin. It comes from their USA technical director, who makes a lot of useful posts on Galbraith's site in a semi-official capacity. He tends not to indulge in PR spin, and he's responding to a group who really couldn't give a toss about underwater photography anyway, so I think it stands as an interesting comment. FWIW, if this is Canon's design philosophy your 1Ds/1D Mk2 housing is likely to have a bit more longevity, which is probably a good thing given the prices being bandied around here for 1Ds housings!

I think in terms of absolute resolution, the 1Ds should be better. The 1.3x crop may make the 1DII kinder on lenses, though. The big strengths of the 1DII as a PJ camera aren't very valuable underwater but I'm sure it would be great.

I could see that the smaller pixel size of the 1DII might make it actually a little better for macro than the 1Ds. I'm very interested to see. The projected cost makes it very attractive.

Kasey, I'm assuming I'll upgrade to the next big thing once it's clear what I want. I've held off on the 1Ds because of the cost, lenses, and the expectations of new cameras coming out. Insteaed, I tried without success to house a 14n. A price reduction on the 1Ds would suit all of us, even those who stay with the Nikon mount.

The funny thing is, the one thing that REALLY makes this a PJ camera is the one thing I could care less about, the 8FPS. It's everything else that I like about the camara...

Please explain that one Craig

That means that for a given projection of an image on the sensor, you'll get more pixels in your resulting image. Assuming you take two shots from the same position, one with the 1Ds and one with the 1DII, the same compositional crop from both cameras will yield more pixels with the 1DII than with the 1Ds, even though the 1Ds has more overall pixels. (because the image projected onto the sensor is the same size in both cameras). The 1DII's image will be the full 8MP. The 1Ds' image would be whatever the equivalent crop is (at 1.3X), which presumably is fewer than 8MP.

However, if you were free to move closer to frame your subject the same way, the 1Ds would be able to capture the photo with the full 11MP.

Only if we can keep our tears from fogging our masks!

AFAIK UK-Germany has a Housing for the 14N

Simon

Don't worry Kasey, dry those eyes we're getting them housed already :wink: :mrgreen:

Very reasonable price too, inc. port adapters.

Eric is correct. That's why I think that the 1Ds will offer more overall resolution even though one could argue the opposite. Lenses tend to offer better resolution through the middle of the image and digital has a problem with incedent angles around the edge of the frame, but I'd be surprised if that alters the results between the two. Like to see.