HI!

I'm thinking about this topic a long time already, but I can't really make up my mind.

I'm the happy owner of a Canon 300D and of course I would like to house it and take it with me underwater.
I did some diving with a Canon S30 before and was quit pleased with the results, but the housing started to fog easily, it was only rated to 30 Meters and over all, I was not that happy with it.

I thought about housing my SLR a long time already, but my biggest problem is the price of an SLR Housing in general.

Even for a "cheap" housing, you have to spend at least 1200 US$ which is quite a lot in my opinion. I mean it is even more expensive than the camera itself, which is quite ridiculous if you look at it like that.

For that price of the Ikelite housing, I can pick up a new Olympus 5060 + UWHousing + WAL + spare Battery + CF Card. If I would go with a used 5050 I could even save more money!

So I can't make up my mind now, if housing my SLR is really worth THAT much money or if I should just get an Oly 5050(used) + Housing + WAL for maybe 800 US$.

I know the picture quality of the Canon is much better than the consumer cameras, but I still think the Oly should deliver decent quality too.

The pros of the SLR would of course be:

- Low Noise
- High Iso
- Long Battery Life
- Better picture quality in general

Yes, the low noise is an issue, but as I have a YS-90DX strobe already, I don't really need high ISO (so could keep the noise level down), except for environmental shots without flash, which I hardly do.
The long battery life is a plus for sure, but I think the batteries on the 5060/5050 should last quite a while too.


On the other side, I think the consumer cameras are much more flexible.

You get a video mode which is a really nice gadget in my opinion, you have the live lcd preview which I think makes it easy to frame the picture (I never used an SLR underwater, so I don’t know how good the Viewfinder issue has been solved by the housing manufacturers). You have a super macro mode, so you don't need a special macro lens.
I also think the Oly housing looks quite decent with the double O-ring system and as it is rated to 40 meters already, I think it shouldn't be a problem to take it a bit deeper too and you don't go much deeper than 45-50 meters anyway. At least not when you just do some holiday diving.

So I'm really stuck now with my decision and would really appreciate some input on that topic.

My biggest concern with the housed SLR is the loss of flexibility once underwater.
I mean on the surface, I can change lenses all the time, but once I'm underwater I can't.
So when I decide to put up a macro lens, I'm stuck with that lens for the whole dive and I can't do any wide-angle stuff at all. If on the next dive, I decide to go wide-angle and I see some nice macro stuff, I can't shoot it.
With the Oly I don't get the perfect picture quality of the Canon, but at least I can shoot all the stuff I want to shoot and the outcome should still be of good quality.
I also liked the size of the Canon housing as it was quite small. The Oly will of course be a bit bigger, but still smaller than the Ikelite SLR setup.

I posted this topic in the SLR forum, as you guys probably have experience with both setups and so I would like to know if the advantages of an SLR especially regarding the price of the housing really out weight the Oly setup.

Regards

Robert

Once you try a camera without shutter lag you will be able to get shots that you were never able to get before.

Cheers
James

I used to shoot my Oly 4040, taking off the WA lens when I wanted a fish portrait, putting on the macro lens when I found a nudi, putting on the WA lens when I saw a nice reef scene. I would do all of this during the dive, and I thought it was to my advantage.

When I upgraded from my Oly 4040 to my Fuji S2, I noticed that being "stuck" with your lens actually helps me creatively. When I am "stuck" with my macro lens, I think macro, and tend to explore every nook and cranny. When I am "stuck" with my WA lens, I tend to look at the big picture. I found that when you are in the same "frame" of mind as your camera, you end up with superior results. I do admit, I could be a bit peaved when I'm shooting macro and the whale shark swims by, but I'll end up with an awesome shot of a whale shark eye! And how many of those have you seen? Sometimes rules can help me think outside the box.

And oh yeah, my decrease in fishbutt intake has been awesome! Shutter lag and moving subjects are like oil and water. I say, if you have the SLR... house it! Just my two cents.

I have a housed D100 and CP 5000. With the wide angle lens the 5000 gives me wide angle to close macro. But it serves only as backup. Lack of shutter lag and fast auto focus makes the D100 much more useful UW. True you have to choose wide angle or macro. But you have the ability to choose the best lens for the shoot. The LCD preview I find of limited value. UW, looking through your mask and your housing, It is tough to evaluate a preview properly. However; LCD review with hologram superimposed through the D100's much better LCD screen is extremely useful.

House the SLR. If you don't you will later and will have paid for 2 housings. It will be useful as a backup though.

If you can afford to house your SLR then I would heartily encourage you to do so.

My own experience was of going from a housed film SLR to a housed point and shoot digital; a CP5000. I hated it and couldn't do with it underwater what I could with my SLR.

I now have a housed D100 and although I'm just starting to learn it's foibles, it is streets ahead of the Coolpix.

If you've got an SLR and like using it topside, house it for UW. I had a Canon film SLR and a Sony P&S digicam and decided to house the Sony. Ended up using it on a couple trips and hating the shutter lag and using the LCD to compose the shot. Ended up selling it, buying a Canon D60 and housing that, and I've never looked back.

Ah I may be able to help you here.

I have an Oly C5050 with a PT015 housing which I am selling because I just bought the Canon EOS 300D. I expect to buy the Ikelite housing soon and have loads of fun learning how to use this, more complex, system UW.

Why Move? Well the above reasons for sure - inc super-quick autofocus and real, proper manual focus - a better array of creative possibilities with the SLR. I do like my Oly and have had some really great results with it, but I want more, both topside and UW, than this camera (or the 5060) can achieve.

As its been discussed a million times before, DSLR and prosumer cameras each have their pros and cons. While it is truly no contest (or a small one) that the DSLRs reign supreme when it comes to image quality, auto focus speed, and shutter lag, the question you need to ask yourself is what purpose do you have in shooting underwater photos. I say this because where the prosumer camera does seem to exceed is in functionality. What I mean by this is simply that the prosumer cameras offer the flexibility of shooting macro and wide-angle on the same dive.

From my personal standpoint, being able to capture photographs of turtles and shoot my super macro plankton life while on my safety stop during each one of my dives serves a higher purpose to ME than the benefits I would get from using a DSLR. Sure the DSLR would probably allow me to get better photos of either one but, as you know, I'd be commited to just one thing. I have had too many opportunities to photograph rare creatures that would have not been possible had I been setup with a DSLR with the wrong lens.

The only other benefit I find from using a prosumer camera is its small size. Lugging around my 'Little Geek (the name of my camera)' with strobes is a cinch in comparison with some of the larger DSLR setups.

And yes, while the prosumer camera's shutter lag will make you miss plenty of shots, that's not say its impossible to work with one. As you work with the camera you'll develop the skills to shoot with it where the lag will almost seem nonexistant.

On the point of the Oly 5060, there is a lot of talk about this system at the moment. Very few have had the opportunity to work with the system and put it through its paces. I have been using the 3040 and 5050 for almost 3 years now and they have paid for themselves a million times over. The 5060 promises even better functionality from some standpoints -- shorter lag times, wider lens, CF WA support, and tons more. If you're not absolutely sure, I'd say you wait it out a bit and wait for some feedback on this system before making your final choice.

Just to confuse you further, I have lots of friends who use DSLRs underwater and they truly are amazing. One day when I stop diving for a month I'll probably be able to afford one and then I'll just have to find me a dive sherpa who will carry one setup or the other for me on every dive.

Hi Robert,

Well, I just think what Laz, said, it completely depends on what you want underwater.
If you go there diving and happy snappin? Or if you want to take the perfect picture of a Whale Shark Eye?
That is mainly what you have to decide!
Yes the Oly will have some shutter lag and you occasinally shoot some Fishbutt,
But with a non Digital SLR Camera I guess your start will be a shitload harder untill you get some reasonalbe pic, when you get there no doubt the outcome will be much better than with a consumer cam, but also there you get some reasonable results.
If you wanna have a look:
some Lion Fish
or
a couple of Sharks
and
some Pikes with WAL
all done with an Oly 4040 and most of them even in Auto mode
But I as well am doin the step to a DSLR so in a month frm now I might be sayin something completely different!

Anyway have fun deciding!

thomhard

I disagree that shutter lag is a significant difference.

In both cases, (P&S and SLR), I find myself half pressing the shutter to focus, then recompose and shoot.

In both cases you have to wait for the strobe to cycle.

The biggest problem, for me, is when you half press the shutter, and the blankety-blank P&S AF system won't lock on for seconds, even in relatively clear, relatively contrasty conditions...

The compact size, low weight, low cost, (and less loss due to flood), is a big advantage of the P&S cams.

Don

I have to agree that if you 1/2-press to focus on both systems, the shutter lag of a P&S compared to an SLR is greatly reduced, although it is still a difference.

Instead, I'd almost be inclined to introduce a new term into the discussion. Let's call it "composition lag". What I've found using P&S digitals is that there is a slight lag between what you see on the LCD during composition and what is actually happening. Keep in mind I said "slight", we're not talking about a 1 second delay, but in my experience it was noticeable. This is not the case with dSLRs. As someone said earlier in the thread, you will tend to get less fish butt with an SLR than a P&S.

Most of the advice in this thread is good, and it really comes down to selecting what features you prefer and how you want to use your system.

YMMV

Tom

True, but not many and certainly not enough for a hobbiest photographer to warrant spending a trunk full of cash needlessly.

$1000 0r $4500 ooh, tough one!

Hello Robert,

I think the choice comes down to four issues:
* Resources
If you can not afford something (whether it be financial or time constraints), the decision is made in the short term. I would like to have my own personal jet and crew, but I am not holding my breath. If the investment would keep you from taking care of higher level priorities, then the decision should be easier.
* Purpose
Why do you want to take pictures u/w? Simply to remember what you saw during a dive? Or, do you really want to share your experiences with others, trying your best to capture the beauty, energy and essence of your dives?
* Passion
Even if you can afford to house your SLR and would like to capture high quality u/w imagery, how often can or do you want to dive? Do you really want to go through the learning curve to continue to improve?
* Dedication
Are you the type of person who starts a new hobby, wants to find out how good he/she can be, excels, gets bored and then wants to move on to something else?

Only you will know what the best decision is for your life. I think the feedback you have received thus far is impressive.

I wish you the best.

Scott

Or in short - Justification over poserbility.

I would suggest you look around the site and see exactly what HAS been acheived with a 5050 in the hands of Herb Ko, Laz, Patterns and Albatross to mention a few.
Some of the best fish/critter pictures I have ever seen have been captured using a 5050. Plus, It's a very user friendly system.

Going to jump in on this thread. I am on the edge of buying one of the following.

Oly 5050
L&M Tetra Housing
2x90DX strobes
3 Lens Wetmate Package
+ accessories
or
Nikon 100D
Ikelite housing
Dome Port, Nikon 18-35mm F/3.5-4.5
1xDS-125strobe
+accessories

Just about $1200 Difference. Most diving done in coldwater with dry gloves. I love the idea of being able to change lenses on the spot and currently like the ease of P&S. BUT… Shutter lag drives me nuts, and I know as my skills improve I will want to have more flexibility with the system. It’s a steak or lobster question.

Questions

1. If I go DSLR and Ikelite cracks the TTL code can they retrofit a housing?
2. From Experience is one housing easier to operate with gloves?
3. For starting out will an 18-35mm lens in a 3-4dome alow me to take decent panoramic shots? (ex. Buddy on deck of wreck)
4. How small of life can be captured with above lens? Single Queen Angel (filling shot) or will it capture cleaner shrimp?
5. Any items "must have" starting out w/either set-up?

Thanks for all the help.

Interesting thread.

With regards to question 1, they're thinking of retrofitting the 5050 with TTL, so I guess it's possible. I'm personally willing to wait until TTl is available - 2004 looks like the year of Canon eTTL underwater!

In terms of lenses, the 18-35 - do you mean the 18-55 kit lens or the 20-35 canon zoom. They're both cheap, basic zooms. I'd also be interested to see some macro attempts with this lens (the 18-55)

I don't entirely understand the theory that DSLR locks you into a particular type of shot, whereas point&shoot doesn't. Surely it's dependant on the type of lens you stick on? 17-40L is fine for wideish angle, portrait and semi-macro. I'd guess that this would be as versatile as the lens on your point and shoot.

I also disagree that DSLR is unsuitable for fishbutt shots. I have plenty of fishbutt shots with the 10D to prove that it is possible!

I guess I was in a similar decision-making quandry earler this week. I have a 4040 in a Ike housing with a DS-125 strobe. I'm ordering a Digital Reb tomorrow for top-side use on my upcoming trip to Thailand. I have the cash available to buy the housing for it, but.... I've been doing some serious thinking about what I really want to be when I grow up. Am I an aspiring underwater photographer, or am I a diver who just likes to take pictures?

I've decided that I'm really just a diver who likes to take pictures. So, for at least the next year or so, I'm going to stick with my Oly setup and take a whole bunch of fish butt pictures, and the occasional "wow" shot.

That's one of the most sensible things i've heard to date Debbie!

This shot is with the EFs-18-55. It is a little misleading because it is cropped. In uncropped version the slug only stretches 1/2 the width of the frame. I dont know if nikon's lens goes as close but I would think it would be similar.

Just to be clear, the fellow was asking about a Nikon D100, not the digital Rebel.

The 18-35ED Nikkor is not a "prosumer" lens - it's much better than the 18-55 kit lens that comes with the digital Rebel and at a much higher price of $500.

As for the other questions, please read my article in the Features.

Cheers
James

Debbie: I am wrestling w/am I a diver who likes to take pictures or an underwater photographer. My wife said “you can’t do a sport without competing and it will be the same with this”. She is right, in the few hobbies I have I compete and I think eventually that would drive me to a DSLR system.

Whitey: From what I have read you are “locked into” a type of shot since you can’t change lenses underwater. It seems many DSLR shooters go with manual settings and lenses that are specific to a task, Macro, WA, etc… Someone please correct me if I am wrong here.

Starfish: That looks like a pretty good Macro shot to me. Maybe the Pro’s could critique. How does it do with “wide angle” shots?

James: I think you are right about the lens. It’s part of a package quoted by BH Photo. Spencer there was a big help and really took the time to go thru the different options on a range of systems. The lens is Nikon 18-35mm f/3.5-4.5 D-AF ED-IF @ $499 + $50mfg rebate.

What about accessories you just can’t live with out? Batteries, Chargers, Memory cards, Picture editing software???? Your favorite brand and why.

Well, keep in mind that acroporas cropped that shot, so the actual field of view was probably about 4 inches or so. Still not bad at all. Nice aquarium shot btw!

Other things that you will want are:

Some Powerex batteries from www.thomasdistributing.com, a 1 gigabyte memory card, and a good photo editing package. Adobe Photoshop Elements (or PE for short) is a good start.

Cheers
James