I’m using a Fuji S2 pro in my own built housing. I use the Nikonos SB 105 flash unit in TTL mode.
My question, is their a more powerful flash unit available on the market, and what would the guide number be in comparison ?

Marc

Scroll down to bottom half of following URL:

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/compare_strobes.html

Heck yeah, there are a LOT more flash units that are more powerful than the SB105. I am using 2 Ike 200's now and they are about twice as powerful.

Cheers
James

Thanks Ike,

Looks like the Substrobe 400 is the way to go.

Just curious why you don’t have a on line store were we could purchase your goodies ?

Is anyone out their using the Substrobe 400 that could give a unbiased opinion ?

Marc

I used the Substrobe 300 which is the same size and weight - just older. It is an incredibly wide and powerful strobe. Perfect for use w/ the 12-24DX.

Did I mention how big it is?

Cheers
James

The SS-400 is a huge monster. I mean BIG and heavy. It is hard enough handling two strobes without handling these guys.

If you are going Ikelite I recommend the SS-200's which are 1/2 the weight and quicker to recycle. Go with a dual strobe set up and they'll give you as much light as you will ever need.

M

What Marriard said. They are very powerful and very heavy, nor do they refresh as quickly. Two SS200's are more than enough, unless you are in a cave.

I've got some for sale. E-mail me if interested.

I do most of my diving across the street from my motel in Lauderdale by the Sea.
It’s difficult to walk with all that dive gear and camera housing to the beach.
I’d rather just use one flash, it’s easer to balance on top of the housing.
Would you still recommend using the 200 over 400 in my situation ?

How many flashes can one get from the 400 model. Most of my dives can last two
hours at 15 to 20 foot depth. This allows me to take as many as 100 picture or more
on any given dive.

Marc

Do you really need more power?

I seldom ever use a full power setting on my Ike 200s or SB 104s. If you are shooting wide angle, A wider beam angle may be all that is required. The SB 105 is not a wide beam strobe!

The Ike DS 125 may may be a better (and lighter) choice. small, wide, VERY FAST recycle, and able to deliver plenty of full power flashes.

I have several Ike 150s that use the same monster case as the 400 . They use the same flash head and deliver a very even and wide beam. The lower output combined with multiple power settings gives me more control in low ambient light situations where wide apertures are required to properly expose the water in the background. These can be purchased at very reasonable prices on Ebay.

Dear Wetpixel Readers,

Concerning the interest in a "more Powerful" TTL strobe for use with underwater cameras - digital or film, people should check out the line of strobes made by a company called Hartenberger in Koln, Germany. He makes a 625ws model that is roughly comperable in size and weight to the big Ikelite 300/400. A 250ws that is slightly longer and thinner than the Ikelite 200. And I believe he now makes a 125. I own both 625's and 250's and feel they are the best underwater strobes I have ever used.

One of the best features is that the strobes have a quite short flash duration which means that virtually 100% of their manual output is also available for TTL. Many strobes "lose" part of their total output in TTL because Nikon limits the time a TTL flash is read to somewhere between 1/250th and 1/500th of a second. I first discovered this problem when the F90X (N90S) came out and I discovered that the furthest I could stop down a lens in TTL gave me a flash meter reading .8 f-stop less that the full manual flash with the flash meter at the same "subject distance". This did not happen with my F4, which had no such TTL time limitation. But it is also present in more recent cameras like the F100 and F5. The F5 is my primary underwater camera so getting the maximum power out of my strobe was very important.

A second good feature of the Hartenberger strobes is very fast recycle times - a bit over one second for the 625 and a well under a second for the 250. He has a website.

Good luck.

The Hartenberger strobes look interesting but $2k for a strobe is a little pricy.
Bill

I believe Craig has one of these large Hartenbergers.

Cheers
James

I'm with Chris here. My experience in changing from film to digital (was CP5000 , soon to be D100 ) is that you need LESS light, not more.

I have several SB105s which I used with film. When I tried to use them with the CP I found that even on their lowest settings I was getting way too much light for macro. I bought James' old SB 90 DX and that helped. I also made some heavy duty diffusers.

If you're shooting CFWA and you only want to use one strobe then I reckon it's more about a wide strobe angle and careful attention to aiming the strobe.

Sure more oomph from your strobe will let you use a smaller aperture and therefore have more DOF, but that doesn't change the ever present problems of water clarity and red light absorption both of which conspire to make the background of your shots murky.

14 Dec - Adelaide, Australia

I would like to respond to "abowie" and his commnet that digital photography needs less light, not more. My experience is that my S2 digital camera set at ISO 100 does indeed need less light than my F5 with ISO 100 film. And that works both ways. In macro, a less powerful strobe will give you the same aperture and DOF. But when it comes to fill flash you can find this works against you. Because the digital camera is more sensitive, and may not sync to 1/250 like a film camera, you easily get shallow horizontal water color readings like 1/125 at f11. And shooting upward, or with the sun in the picture, you might need 16 or 22. And it takes real strobe muscle to pump out these kinds of aperture when you aren't right next to you subject. And if you're shooting with a fisheye lens, you have to position the strobes farther behind the camera, and farther from the subject, to avoid "burning" the edges of the picture.

Even with the F5 and film I find the bigger strobes often allow me the chance shoot an underwater scenic or a really big section of reef wall at 1/60 at f11, rather than the 1/250 at f5.6 a 125ws strobe would limit me to. And this means better DOF and better sharpness at the corners of the picture.

Another situation where muscle is irreplacable is when you are shooting what many call "super-macro". I sometimes shoot as high as 4x or 5x, getting this with a combination of a 2x converter with extension tubes. At 4x, you have an extension factor of 5~6 f-stops depending on the lens, which is the amount of additional light you need to still be able to shoot at the f16 or f22 marked aperture on the lens diaphragm setting. Again, in this situation, there is substitute for muscle. Except shoot at a much higher ISO and give up the image quality.

If I can have only one set of stobes with me on a trip, I'll take the big ones every time. And although the hartenberger 625 is a big heavy strobe, especially on land, it is virtually neutral in the ocean.

divegypsy

You make some very interesting points, not the least of which being that you live in my home town!

Are you a SAUPS member?

Andrew Bowie

The thing is, ISO100 on the S2 should = ISO100 on the F5, or any other camera for that matter.

ISO is set by the standards organization for this exact reason. The reason the D100 needs "less light" is because it is an ISO200 camera. That means you can use strobes that are 1/2 as powerful.

I use Ike SS200's with my S2.

Cheers
James

At least!

Subtronic makes nice higher power strobes, too, and Stephen Frink is a dealer for them through Seacam. I don't know how they compare to the big 625's but they are a little smaller and have a higher UW guide number in spite of their lower 350Ws rating. I'd like to try the Subtronics out.

Hartenberger can be purchased direct from the manufacturer if you are in North America. They are beautifully made.

Dear Andrew,

Sorry if my response misled you. I am only in Adelaide as a visitor. I'm actually from New Hampshire in the US. But being a dive gypsy who likes to go where the diving is really good, and who likes to avoid NH winters (almost a meter of snow there recently) I frequently come to Australia. I especially like the southern half of Australia because the more publicized Great Barrier Reef shares much of its marine life with places like Indonesia and Papua New Guinea, which I lke better, the southern tier has a large number of endemic critters that are found nowhere else. And the diving is much less expensive or can even be done from shore. Love the Edithburgh jetty! One of the world's great macro dives.

And Ian's Patterson's Wetsuit Coolers has been making great wetsuits for me for years.

DG

For Craig, and others.

Concerning Craig concerning Subtronic vs Hartenberger - both are made in Germany, Hartenberger is not made in USA. Both are excellent strobes. And both are quite different in basic philosophy.

Hartenberger strobes have much faster recycle times for equivalent power, and have interchangeable battery packs. Subtronic has permanent batteries and once these are depleted, the strobe must be recharged. Subtronic's Mega is a very interesting strobe in that you can vary the color temp from shot to shot over 5 settings - it has both a warm and cool flashtube and the settings vary the power to each. With Hartenberger you have interchangeable flashtube/reflector assemblies which must be changed "dry". The Hartenberger strobes have very short flash durations, which means that 100% of the manual output is usable in TTL with F90x and newer "rear-sync" bodies. The bigger Subtronic strobes "lose" some portion of their output in TTL. The one I tested "lost" about half a stop.

Unless things have changed in the last couple years, Seacam labeled strobes are "repackaged" Subtronic models. At least they were at the time I bought my F5 housings from Seacam.

There are real differences between Hartenberger and Subtronic, but both are excellently made strobes. I just prefer the fast recycle/interchangeable battery back features of the Hartenbergers. A friend really likes the "on-the-fly" changeability of the color temp of the Subtronic mega.

DG

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that Hartenberger had no North American distributor but you could order direct from them in Germany.

Thanks for the comparison of the two manufacturers. Seacam's strobes are rebadged Subtronic's but they offer the advantage of the US distributor.

Have you used Hartenberger's alternate reflectors (specifically the alternate color temp ones)?

Craig,

I understand that many people like the idea of a US distributor. I, on the other hand consider it just another layer of "profit taking" between the manufacturer and end user.

A great way to see many of the neat toys that are available in Europe is to go to the "Boat Show" in Dusseldorf, Germany. The Boat Show takes place during the last full week in January each year - nine days - two weekends and the five weekdays inbetween. There are actually about a dozen large display halls, but only one of them is devoted to diving.

Many of the German manufacturers and displayers speak fluent English. I've always had a great time there, when I have been able to go, despite not speaking German. And the show is open to the public, unlike our DEMA, so you just buy your ticket at the door and go in. It will really open your eyes.

Yes, I've do change my reflector/flash tubes with some frequency. If I feel I'm most likely to be shooting a lot of "blue water" pics I generally use the 4500 K tubes, while at a place like KBR in N. Sulawesi, which is almost totally macro, I prefer the 5000 K tubes. Depends a little on what film I'm shooting. Changeover only takes a minute or two per strobe and is quite simple. I also own the other two temps - 4,000 & 5,000, but use them only rarely, for special purpose. Though 5,500 or even higher might be of use with digital where you can change the color temp of the final image so easily in Photoshop.

DG

I use a pair of Subtronic and like them very much. They charge in less than 2 hours and a full charge always lasts a day of shooting. And anyone who has ever travelled me knows that I am in the water more than most. On film I have done 7 rolls on TTL no problems, and on digital shot over 400 pix in a day (but with the flash on 1/2 or 1/4 power).

The external chargers just plug straight into the flashes - meaning very little extra baggage. I couldn't afford the variable colour temp ones, but everybody I know who has the feature - loves it.

Alex