Hello Everyone,

So the scenario is your are booked for a trip Guadelupe and thinking about lenses for use there while in the cages. Ideally would the Nikon 17-55mm be the best option for use with a D200? As an alternate would you prefer soemthing else like a 16mmFE? And as a matter of preplanning, would you shoot without strobes given that you will be in the cages with others?

Any thoughts or experience you have for this area with the equipment you've used would be greatly appreciated.

paquito

As a side note, if someone could please tell Nikon to hurry up and put their rumored new lens line-up announcement out there, that would be great!

The 17-55 is a great shark lens, but I would also consider the new Tokina 10-17 fisheye (if you haven't bought the 17-55 yet). I wouldn't suggest it if you were out to photograph gray reef sharks or something like that, but the Tokina sounds like it would be a great lens for large animals (Great Whites included).

I would take the strobes just in case, but since you will be so close to the surface, try staring without strobes and see how it goes. If you like the results keep going strobe-less, otherwise add the strobes! It is always good to have the option, so I wouldn't travel without them.

I know others will disagree with me but the 17-55MM is a waste of money, it's not a very good underwater lens and it way to expensive, the Sigma 28-70MM does nearly all the 17-55MM can and is 4x cheaper. The down sides are it's focal distance, it's HUGE and heavy and in my opinion not worth the money. The Tokina 10-17MM on the other hand is a far more useful lens and priced nicely. Again in my opinion get the Tokina 10-17MM and you'll not look back. Oh and by the way yes I try the 17-55MM for one month and the 12-24MM but the Tokina out does them both.

17-55MM Images:

12-24MM Images

Tokina 10-17MM Images:

Well can't agree with kriptap on the 17-55, have it love it. I agree the Tokina 10-17 would be great for GWs. Depending on the action you can start with the 17-55 and then once you think you have a couple decent solo shots the 10-17 would be great for cage&shark shots. Our Guadalupe gallery is almost all taken with the 17-35 and Cocos with the 17-55 (my shots don't do the lenses or subjects justice).

I also think the Tok would be ideal, but you'll have to practice zooming under pressure. Things happen very fast at Guadalupe, and you may find the shark is right up at the cage while you're still fiddling with your controls. I got my best results with a 16mm fisheye when I was there. I only used flash on the last day, and although the failure rate was high, I got my best shots of the trip. The challenge is putting together a rig that doesn't get in the way of the other shooters, and which can be quickly pulled back inside the cage if a shark charges. That's right - many of the best pics come from cameras actually held outside the cage - as to when to whip your hands back inside...well, that's going to be your call. Good luck - it's an amazing place.

I shot all of these GW's with the 17-55..

http://homepage.mac.com/mikepalasz/PhotoAlbum17.html

I kinda liked this lens but have only used it once in Guadalupe.

M.

I've been to Guadeloupe once and South Australia once. Consistently the best lens has been one that gives you the equivalent of a 28 mm lens on a film SLR. You are most likely to get a full frame shot at this focal length.

IMHO for shooting sharks the best lenses would be the 17-55 or the 12-24. They give you the right focal length for the sharks you are liable to encounter and are very sharp underwater.

The fisheye lenses, the Tokina 10-17 or Nikon 10.5 are very good lenses if you get sharks that close. Not everyone does by a large margin. You also have to like the fisheye look. I do for some shots but I don't care for a steady diet of them. The Tokina I think would be better do to the flexibility of the zoom. Also at the 17 mm end it does not have not nearly as much fisheye distortion as a regular fisheye.

If I had to go with one lens it would be the 12-24. Doesn't seem to get the love of other wide angle lenses but it is consistently my best performer. I really like the 17-55 and the fisheyes for some purposes though.

Last time at Guadalupe I took my 17-55 & 12-24. Planned on using both lenses but ended up using the 12-24 the whole trip. With the 17-55 I would have only used the WA portion of the zoom anyway. The 17-55 is a great general purpose u/w lens but a little wider coverage is better for the friendly sharkies. Regarding use of strobes - take them in case, but its alot more difficult to move around in the cage with even one strobe. Try shooting from low in the cage (slight up angle) vs horizontal for different lighting conditons.

Thank you everyone for the great responses and the very helpful image links. Talk about envy, I can't wait to dive with those beauties and get half the results you fine photographers did. You've given me more to work out.

I do plan to bring strobes just in case. I figured that if there were two or three of us in the cage and we all had strobes, I'd prefer to be more flexible and less obrusive and go without using them, perhaps bringing them out on the last day or so when everyone has a routine established.

I have not yet invested in the 17-55 but was able to use it (and a 70-200) at a recent concert and found it really nice. Though expensive, the only real doubt I had was whether it was wide enough? It sounds as though you all are quite please with some of the alternatives that the 12-24 and tokina 10-17 can provide. With the tokina at 17 on my cropped D200 the fishy look would be minimized to a degree, but not enough to be as much of a value to me topside, but I could always leave it dedicated to u/w use. My main reason for the thought on the 17-55 was that if the sharks were not interested enough and were keepign a distance that I would have some range there to try and pull them in a little tighter with that lens. Not having past experience with the area, I kind of planned for a lot of hit or miss opportunities. I realize the crew will do their best to draw them in, but in your experience, is it about 50/50 that the sharks will get close enough or better? If they are know to get much closer I think one could go wider.

A few other questions if you would please entertain, though I don't want to go too far off lens topic. Personally, I have no problems with sharks or demanding dive situations, and I would really like to capture some of the out of the cage images such as Mike was able to get. The operator is not suggesting bringing dive equipment, leaving everything hooka based and I am unaware if they permit out of the cage dives? Do you find it possible to do this? Woulld you suggest brining some equipment and ask (kindly/beggingly) upon arrival and once I've proven my competence and experience to the crew? Any suggestions?

Thank you for the tips and help!

They won't let you out of the cages.

solmar has the lunchbox cage and you can climb out but not swim around

After a couple of close passes you will want to be in cage.

M.

I've never been impressed by the 'outside the cage' gang. They claim it enable sthem to get better pictures and document different behaviour, but I dispute this because all the best white shark pictures I've seen have been taken from inside cages. If you're swimming around outsaide the cage, a greater proportion of your concentration will be on tracking the sharks and keeping yourself alive. Shooting from a cage is easy by contrast. Personally, I think the guys who make a noise about shooting from outside the cage should just be honest with themselves and admit they are doing it for the adrenaline hit, or to boast in bars...

Though I have not done the Guadelupe trip, I am a real fan of the 17-55 over the 12-24. I think it is significantly sharper, at least underwater with a dome and +2 dioptre
The 2.8 maximum aperture, could also be an advantage over the 10-17 in less than ideal viz
http://www.waterworldimages.com/gallery/2716547#P-2-15

Looking at many of my shots the majority were in the 25-35mm range.

Thanks for the added info.

Loftus, do you use the +2 diopter with a Subal FE2 or +3 with your 17-55?

Grinderman, I also believe that sometimes 'climbing outside of certain boxes of behavior' deteriorates the experience for others as well. Sometimes sharks keep more of a distance if someone is out and about trying to chase or capture a closer shot versus attempting to allow them to come closer so that everyone can get a chance. Having vast past diving experience with hammerheads, whale sharks, silkies, numerous other sharks experience, and having hand-fed silver tips off Tahiti (not condoning), I know when to check my ego and when its not about the adrenaline rush. Having enjoyed the ability of some of these fellow diver's fabulous pictures to tell the whole story and big picture that simply capture 'the moment and feel' of divers in a cage from different aspects, hopefully with the sharks coming by, its it only that different perspective that I wanted to try and frame. But if this attempt would detract from the other divers experiences or piss off the crew, then it wouldnt even be one that I would consider.
...Some of us think first.

Thanks to those who contributed, I appreciate it very much and look forward to a great experience.

paquito

Paquito, you seem a nice enough guy, but to tell the truth I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. Strangely, you lay down a few platitudes about controlling your ego, then cheekily admit that you have hand fed silvertips. I'm not anti-feeding per se, but it is the most irresponsible approach, as it sets up a direct relationship between divers, the sharks and their food.

I accept that a few people out there have sufficient experience to photograph great whites outside the cage, but I don't believe it should be encouraged or popularised. If such diving practice were to enter the mainstream, people would inevitably get hurt, and shark conservation would likely pay the price.

Anyway, I wish you a great time at Gualaloupe. It is a magical place.

I use the +2 with the FE2

Hola Paquito:

I don't know what outfit you are heading to Guadaloupe with, but I am booked on the Solmar the first week of October.

Solmar's literature says not to bring strobes, but when I spoke with them they said definitely bring the lights. Besides the surface cage, they have one at a 30' depth, and I understand we can photograph at night.

I just returned from a couple of weeks in the Galapagos, and the Tokina lens is great. Ryan at Reefphoto recommended it over the Nikon, and he was spot on. It was also the first chance I had to shoot with Ikelite's new TTL electronics/cable for the Nikon, and it worked really well.

Cheers,

El Gabacho del Norte

Hola Dan!

That's great news, a different perspective I had not heard of yet. I was aware of the 30ft cage but not of the night diving possibilities, hopefully conditions hold up well for all of our trips. I will be on the SolmarV as well in Sept. The Tokina FE is on my short list, but it wasn't planned for the Guadelupe trip. We are all fortunate in our lives to have these lovely adventures to draw upon to support our lens envy and lust

The strobes will be packed along knowing that the variety of opportunities are expanding.

Thank you for the good news,

paquito