As Wetpixel continues to grow, more and more housing manufacturers are becoming strong supporters of this site. Even though they are lurking, they are listening. So all you wetpixel readers out there wanting certain features or certain cameras housed, let the manufacturers know what you want (in a nice and constructive way,please). Please note this is not a gripe thread but a constructive method of feedback to the manufacturing industry.
I will start with my most fervent wish as of right now:

A housing for the Canon XH series. As a manufacturer, Canon is very willing to work with manufacturers with support of their lanc connections. The images produced from this series is sharp and even the pans on HDV look better than the Sony. It is a very viable alternative to the Sony FX/Z/V1 series. It is also priced right between the Sony segment.
What's stronger about this camera is the fact that it is much more customizable imagewise than the Sony, giving the shooter more flexibility in getting the right shot on camera vs in post.

As for features, some sort of attachment hook or bracket to put weights or flotation on housings to balance the housings would be cool. One of the hardest things for many housings is to get the balance right once you put lights/monitors and other accessories on. Being able to strap weight on the bottom or put closed cell foam on top (Not the other way round folks!) would be a boon to housing users.

Happy wishing all!

Well why not have a tiny BCD for the housing that you can regulate the bouyancy for your housing that you want at any depth.

Just pop it in the water and if floats, get in and let the air out and away you go adjusting it during the dive. Extra long inflator hose runs to it. Get back to the surface and pump it back up again and hook it on the mermaid line as you get out

Hi Wags,

I'm not sure that will work. The bouyancy will vary with depth so you need to constantly adjust it to keep it neutral. What could work is a balast tank. The volume in a balast tank stays the same. Problem with the balast tank is water moving around changing the weight distribution.

Peter

Lightweight, compact, simple to maintain, let me pack my camera inside it during travel, potentially use a removable tripod plate to mount the cam in the housing so I'm not always attaching/detaching plates when going from topside to underwater filming. How about a simple optic on the back that magnifies the viewfinder view as an alternative to an external monitor. It would be nice if it would also rinse out my wetsuit and hang it up after dives too.

Funny, here I am trying to give members a chance to give serious feedback to manufacturers and I get three stooges. Sigh

I wonder why they don't take us seriously.

A housing thats electronic..But if it fails some manual levers for back up...A thought.

Better button positions on the grips..They seem to be made for gloveless tropical divers. I wear 5mm.

More sturdy manual controls, especially the exposure levers.

Definitely more lens options..Maybe dome ports for telephoto or conversion lenses.

Free / cheap rental for a week for try buyers..Or money back if purchased. I think L&M do this...

I'll try to think of more.

Dive safe

DeanB

A underwater remote control with the following features:

1. remote control of all electronic functions
2. small remote monitor
3. control of powered tripod
4. underwater plugable
5. minimum 5 meter cable

Cripes.. Remote this, remote that...

Why don't you just get somebody to do it for you I'm cheap...Ish.

Dive safe

DeanB

Naaah, you're going to scare away the fishies. But with all these remote functions you can easily convert a housing to a sofisticated pole cam.

Its a short answer to your prob...But therapy will get you over your fear of water. Try paddling first, then wading up to your waist..



Were divers not skivers.

Dive safe...Or not at all for some .

DeanB

Here are some thoughts i put into Easy to Do and Wishful Thinking Categories:

Easy to Do:
Manual Controls: I am a big advocate of electronic with manual back up. If you give me manual on Power, Record, and Zoom, I would be incredibly happy. That would require a button for record and zoom each and one side rocker lever for zoom.

Attachment Points: I agree with Drew, more attachment points for weights, etc is always nice.

Ext. Monitor: Super slim, high resolution monitor that can be positioned in differnt locations, articulated to dif angles and isn't bulky.

Wishful Thinking:
Better Lenses: Atomic is doing it with their masks, let's do it lenses. Someone create a super tough lens that actually improves light transfer to the sensor. I don't want to have to worry about inadvertant scratches, scuffs and spotting. I also want more light getting to my sensor.

UW Auto WB Technology: It would be super cool if a mfg. created an auto WB contraption that constantly evaluated the surrounding light and modified the cams WB settings in real time via the Lanc. A sensor would be located on the front of the housing next to the lens and would used some technology (lazer, UV, whatever) to measure the light and offset against daylight settings. The user could then adjust the settings on the WB thingy to get the desire look. The WB circuitry would be built into the housing elecronics.

I have lots more but will save for another day:)

With you on that Shawn, and may I add a manual focus knob to the list.


Would be great if it was slim and could be folded down (towards user) to fit the housing into tight gaps.

Yes Nick...a manual focus knob would be nice.

More colour options...Kelly likes Pink

Can I sent you the invoice for a new screen? Mine is covered in coffee.

On housing with electronic controls on both handles, I would like to see a button that would allow for toggling the control functions from one handle to the other and vise versa. And maybe even user assignable button functions. My left thumb doesn't work very well due to herniated discs, so I need to mostly rely on old righty.

Light and Motion have switchable handles already, but it would be nice to be able to connect your housing to a usb port on your laptop and use a simple DOS based program to change button functionality

Thanks, up until now this was all I was able to read from their website -

Unlike mechanical solutions, Smart Grip Handles put the main controls right at your fingertips. Need to shoot left handed while bracing with right hand? No problem. The left handle can be user programed to control record, zoom, and momentary focus.

So I thought transfer could only be switched to the left. Thanks to your post, I went back to check. I was finally able to open the link within (after trying for over a month) where I was able to read -

Smart Grips are also switchable left to right, giving you redundant control if needed. This also gives you the option of shooting right or left handed.

So I guess that would work for me. Hopefully the other manufactures will follow.

You can do it in your dive, from memory you hold down one buttong for 2 seconds, and it switches them, and the same to switch back.

I think the main reason they did it was to give you full functionality (with a delay) when the batteries in one of your grips run flat.

I would also like access to at least one assign button on cameras such as the Z1 so I can run in AE override mode when I want to.

DOS? What's that? I didn't see it in either XP or Vista...j/k. What about MAC users?
And if you did do that, how would you change the button labeling? If you reassign them and then forget what you reassigned them to, it could be interesting u/w...

It's only MAC users who would forget what they've changed them to.....

I'd like to see the manufacturers keep their websites more current. When new camera models are released it sometimes takes months for them to be listed as compatible or not on mfrs. websites. I realize that in some cases they just don't know until they are able to obtain a sample for testing but don't most mfr's have a new product liaison for this sort of thing. In several cases, new camera models share an existing shell so at least some mention of a housing in progress would be nice. Most consumers don't attend the video industry trade shows where these items are sometimes displayed pre-production.

Not to bag on Amphibico, but I've read several posts and seen a pre-production picture of their new HD Monitor on a scuba forum. Yet nothing on their website as of a few days ago. And it's something I'm sure many HD videographers would be really interested in.

And one more thing, how about standardizing the connectors used on external monitors so it's not such a hassle to use other manufacturers...

And in a similar vein, I've found out about several different accessories for my housing that aren't listed anywhere on the housing mfr's site. If you sell it, please list it so we can buy it...

I aggree as well.
Quite often we have gone to another site and brought online a product (Non Diving) just because they had more info about it with pics and stuff. People need info about sutff for sure and will go and read reviews on products that they want before they buy and it's more and more on the internet and less in mags....

Like I wonder how many folks went and tried EDIUS because of my postings and stuff .

In defence of all manufacturers, the big electronics companies tend to have a big long line for their demos. They first go for their big market of production houses etc. U/W is still a minor market. So the housing manufacturers are pretty low on the list.
Recently, I even had to give my contact to one of the manufacturers because their Canon rep was slow in getting a loaner camera to them. I've had to climb mountains to get a Sony V1U tester, and I asked in Aug 06! I had to use my industry buddy's camera in Dec because Sony's response was so glacial.
There are are a lot of mitigating circumstances. For instance, housing manufacturers have to gauge the sales of cameras in order to support them (esp camera specific housings like the Sony FX/Z1 etc). I'd been told by a major manufacturer since last Nov they'd build a housing for the HDR-FX7/V1 but they never announced it and still haven't, because they are waiting on the sales figures and also interest level.
As you say, it's easier to deal with the little consumer cameras since they tend to be of similar size. But even those throw in a big surprise once in a while, like the HC1/A1 telemacro mode and the older lanc boards problem.
So it is understandable that manufacturers fence sit until they are sure the product is going to launch. It's pretty embarassing if they had to backtrack on an announcement.
However, I have to agree that the websites in general could be improved on ease of navigation and search.

UT OH

I think I'm in trouble

Ron, you're fine... at least 2 of the major housing manufacturers are covering the Sony FX7. You should be a happy camper by June... poorer... but happy.

By then we will be using the A2 with 2lux capability...

Or the Z2 with 1lux

Or the V2 with 1lux

Or the

Or the

Dive safe

Dean(you may say I'm a dreamer..But I'm not the only one)B

That's a relief to know. What is taking the housing mfr.'s so long ?

Just got back from Curacao video-less. Naturally, I saw some really cool stuff like box crabs, eels feeding, etc..

The timescales indicate they're having to tool bodies/lenses from scratch. Seems like they couldn't just stick the new cams in those old VX2X00/PD1X0 bodies as we thought they might.

Machining from a solid lump (e.g. Gates) can be implemented quickly on CNC machinery, but making new die-casting tools (e.g. Amphibico) takes months.

Another wish is to support Assign Buttons on cameras that have them. Often these buttons are invaluable to switching camera settings on the fly.

Better cable management for umbilical lights, so the cables from the batteries to the light heads are properly integrated into the light arms (but still easy to replace if necessary). I know some lights have this already but not all.

The Gates housing for the V1/FX7 will have assign button access.

Dive safe

DeanB

My wish list is for the upcoming Sony XDCAM eX camera housings.

1. Design housing with one premium wide angle lens (Full Zoom Thru, zero distortion) to complement the Fujinon 14X lens. Housing to be perfectly balanced for that lens.

2. Three flip arms for: CC Filter, Macro Lens arm with assorted changeable dioptors, and Expodisc or similar White Balance Filter.

3. Full electronic/mechanical controls for all key functions, including Assign Buttons.

4. Gain adjustment must be easily accessible.

5. Gyro Stabilizer for steadier shots.

Most important of all: Start designing now, so we don't have to wait over a year after the camera starts shipping to get our housings. Shoot for no more than a two month wait. Yes, it can be done.

I'm sure I missed a few things, so feel free to add to this list.

Dan

Hi Dean,

That is very good to know. Where did you glean that bit of information?

Roger

Marinevisions has a great page on the Gates FX7 housing. Plenty of pictures and information.

Marinevisions FX7 Page

Joe was kind enough to send me an enlarged picture showing the controls and the assign button.


Click to view attachment

Hi Ron,

Thanks for that. I have seen the marine visions pages, but I couldn't read the name on that button on their screen shots. Your photo is higher res. and all is now clear. That could be a very useful feature.

Roll on May. I suspect you are probably in the US ( no need to say), so you may well get access to the housing before those of us on these little islands to the west of Europe. I will be most interested in getting info from you on the housing - specifically the space available for w/a converter etc.

Cheers

Roger

Can I only see one 'Assign' button on this housing...

I was all fired up for the V1 but now I'm going XDCAM EX mental...

If this baby has a decent Lux level I am going to buy two

V'dan is right though.. the manufacturers should be working on housings asap because theres going to be a stampede for these units...where do I put my deposit ?

YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAA XDCAM... sorry i'm losing it again

Dive safe

Dean(xdcam ex)B

You are tough to please Dean.

The way I look at it, one assign button is better than none. Same goes for the flip diopter. Most of the other manufacturers don't have these features.

If all goes according to plan, I'll see a prototype on May 17th at a NY club meeting, place my order, experiment with weighting and controls locally and take it on a my August dive trip to Cocoview.

Your correct Ron...But you've been waiting this long..Lets have perfection.

Be good to hear your thoughts when you get one...

Dive safe

DeanB

6. Achieve neutral buoyancy when lights/monitor are in place without adding external floatation (i.e. make it positively buoyant when lights/monitor are not fitted and then add weights to make it neutral when there are no lights/monitor fitted).

Wondering why you would want to use single element diopters instead of dedicated achromatic diopters? Having switched to achromatics I doubt I'll ever go back to using single element filters again. The quality is night and day.

Cheers,
Mark.

Mark and Nick, good suggestions. Achromatic glass would be great if they can fit it in. Achromatic diopters are thicker, but will reduce chromatic aberrations. We don't want to fight with difficult buoyancy problems when making quick configuration changes on our housings. We'll update our wish list. Any more suggestions are definitely welcome.


Updated Wish List.

Our wish list is for the upcoming Sony XDCAM EX camera housings.

1. Design housing with one premium wide angle lens (Full Zoom Thru, zero distortion) to complement the Fujinon 14X lens. Housing to be perfectly balanced for that lens.

2. Three flip arms for: CC Filter, Macro Lens arm with assorted changeable "achromatic" diopters, and Expodisc or similar White Balance Filter.

3. Full electronic/mechanical controls for all key functions, including Assign Buttons.

4. Gain adjustment must be easily accessible.

5. Gyro Stabilizer for steadier shots.

6. Achieve neutral buoyancy when lights/monitor are in place without adding external floatation (i.e. make it positively buoyant when lights/monitor are not fitted and then add weights to make it neutral when there are no lights/monitor fitted).

Most important of all: Start designing now, so we don't have to wait over a year after the camera starts shipping to get our housings. Shoot for no more than a two month wait. Yes, it can be done.

Guys, I think we have to keep in mind a few things with your requests.
1. Feasability: is the technology really available. Gyro stabilizers? The size of the housing would be near the old Imax camera.
2. Bulk: Making a housing more buoyant really means making it bigger, esp with the ALU housings.
3. Costs: While the bulkier housing will be great for stability in pans, it'll also cost more and travel will mean paying for shipping as well.
4. Limits of Physics: Achromatic diopters are great. However to use them behind a WA lens is asking a lot. First of all, all lenses are designed to have minimal space between lens elements to ensure best quality and minimize the size of the lens element. Moving it back not only compromises quality but also forces the lens element to be proportionately bigger. Again this is pure physics.
I also disagree on making a positively buoyant housing as a matter of function. Many don't dive with lights and there are so many different systems of lighting that this makes little sense. A well balanced neutral housing, with monitor is the most desirable setup. Nowadays, many of the HID lighting systems attach the batteries to the bottom of the camera, which is why a few of you are complaining about the weight underwater. I put CCF on the light heads and arms to offset the weight. This also prevents the movement of the center of gravity and balance. Battery is on me so I don't have to carry any lead weight.
As a housing manufacturer, I would make sure my housing would sell as a solo product first of all then build accessories around it.
The other unfortunate truth is that underwater shooting is a niche or at best secondary market. So camera manufacturers aren't about to give prototypes to housing manufacturers early. So while you can design some aspects of the housing, you need the camera to make a real product. 2 months after launch may be possible, but I'd rather lots of testing and updates before any product moves. Afterall, at this level, you keep the camera and housing for at least 3-4 years. It's worth a few months wait.

Not to argue, but I do disagree on a few topics. Gyro's are very simple, inexpensive, and would not take up that much space or add that much weight. Remember, the housing in the water will be near neutral, so gyro's could be small. This is just throwing around some ideas. I certainly would not avoid a good housing just because it didn't have gyro stabilization. Nobody wants a buoyant housing. We want it close to neutral without having to add too much weight or additional buoyancy. This is why I recommend building this housing with one premium do everything lens, so it will be well balanced and neutral. I don't think anyone buying an $8,000US camera and a top of the line housing would want a cheap base lens, and then add a premium lens and have it 4-5 lbs. front heavy. The EDCAM EX is only slightly heavier and larger than an FX1/Z1. Housing should be similar size. We can at least try, right? It may be quite feasible, maybe not. L&M did a great job with their HID light system. My FX1 housing is trimmed perfectly with the batteries installed at all times, and I don't even change the trim weights when I mount the lights, just makes it slightly more negative, but very usable. The housing has to be designed with specific lights, which will definitely be the manufacturers lights. Get used to them, or deal with the consequences of changing them. A monitor will be a necessity with the XDCAM EX as the on camera monitor is in an awkward place for viewing with an underwater housing. The housing should be designed with a high quality monitor as standard. Will add this to the list.
Dan

Updated Wish List. 5/17/07

Our wish list is for the upcoming Sony XDCAM EX camera housings.

1. Design housing with one premium wide angle lens (Full Zoom Thru, zero distortion) to complement the Fujinon 14X lens. Housing to be perfectly balanced for that lens.

2. Three flip arms for: CC Filter, Macro Lens arm with assorted changeable "achromatic" diopters, and Expodisc or similar White Balance Filter.

3. Full electronic/mechanical controls for all key functions, including Assign Buttons.

4. Gain adjustment must be easily accessible.

5. Gyro Stabilizer for steadier shots.

6. Achieve neutral buoyancy when lights/monitor are in place without adding external floatation (i.e. make it positively buoyant when lights/monitor are not fitted and then add weights to make it neutral when there are no lights/monitor fitted).

7. Design housing with high resolution adjustable angle monitor in a good location as standard equipment, to allow for good viewing, and neutral trim and buoyancy. Streamlined for low hydrodynamic drag.

Most important of all: Start designing now, so we don't have to wait over a year after the camera starts shipping to get our housings. Shoot for no more than a two month wait. Yes, it can be done.

Drew, all I'm really asking is for other manufacturers to do what L&M have done with the Bluefin. The fact I didn't need to add external homemade buoyancy to offset the weight of my lamp batteries was a major factor in me choosing it. Having said that even the Bluefin requires a little buoyancy with the UWA lens as Shawn has found out. I think it would only have been a minimal size increase to build that much extra buoyancy into the body of the housing and then he wouldn't have to muck about with adding foam etc.. On a 3D CAD system it's pretty easy to predict buoyancy.

My 2 cents:
1. Would like to address bouyancy such that housing accomodates all lenses without added floats (agree with Nick)
2. Though i would love a dozen flip filters, i understand the requirement that the cam lens be close to the housing lens. Enabling 2 flips with ALL lens options would be great. Providing more diopter options at reasonable cost would be cool.
3. Super slip and multi-position external HD monitor would be great.
4. Low distortion UWA lens that provides solid performance in the med-wide to ultra-wide range. I am happy with using a macro/flat port for macro shooting.
5. Access to the WB multi-position switch would be very cool for quick switching of WB presets (eg. shallow and deep, lights vs no lights)
6. Access to essential functions through both electronic and manual controls (record, zoom, AF lock plus existing manuals).

All of the above can be achieved at reasonable cost and little R&D. #2 & #4 may require some more work.

So Drew...what happens with this list...the housing fairy puts it under the manufacturers pillows

Sorry if this is a little detailed for this thread. I'm not sure exactly what makes an achromatic diopter achromatic but shouldn't the custom-designed aspheric rectangular diopters ("flip macro") used in the Bluefin be superior, at least in terms of distortion towards the corners, than the spherical Century Optics achromatic diopters? In theory anyway?

Shawn
This thread was meant to allow feedback to the various manufacturers on possible features to be included. Obviously there are engineering issues and obviously cost issues on developing such suggestions. The idea is to give them ideas to implement to their future designs. I know quite a few read the forums.
Nick, achromatic and apochromatic lenses use multiple lens elements to reduce chromatic abberration and light loss. Multiple elements also minimizes resolution drops. Any single element diopter will have resolution and light loss as well as CA. Spherical abberrations and coma are minimized with an aspherical element. Hope this clarifies things.

This has been a fun post to read, but I wonder how easy or difficult it will be for housing manufacturers to implement the wishes.

I'm very inexperienced compared to the members on this board, but I'll offer my opinions anyway.

Buoyancy: Are the buyouancy issues housing problems or accessory problems or both ? My housing by itself was slightly negative. I added a super wide angle lens that was very negative. The lights I chose were negative. I don't always use lights and I don't always shoot wide angle. IMHO, it's the lens, and lights that need more buoyancy. I wear my batteries on my belt. The lamps need a little buoyancy. Ultralight is addressing the issues with their new more buoyant arms.

Lens: I like having the option of using a flat port for macro. A super wide lens will be expensive, big, possibly negative and most likely will not be as good for macro as a flat pot. I like to have choices, but it would be nice if all the lens choices were neutral in weight.

Monitor: Options for external or internal mounts. Size and buoyancy kind of conflict each other. We all want a nice wide monitor, that is slim and also neutral. But to make it neutral they will have to trap some air which means adding size. To make the monitor slim, the batteries will have to be in the housing, adding negative weight to the housing.