If you were in the market for a camera right now which one would you choose?
The D70s, because it is cheaper and anyway in 3 years from now the D2X and D200 will be obsolete so why put the money in those two when in 3 years one might want something else ? The D2X because it will last you for a long time ????? (may be, may be not who knows what is coming next). Or the D200 because it is the newest one, not as expensive as the D2X, not as heavy for travelling and seems to be pretty good on paper and hopefully good for a while too?
Objectives and strobes are good for a long time, my problem is that the housing need to be changed everytime you upgrade so should I go for the best at the time and not have to upgrade or the cheaper at the time and do it again in a few years?
I would love to see what you'all think ?
One way or the other it is going to be expensive, oh well !!!!

Thank you

Sylvie

Hi Sylvie, welcome to wetpixel!

Your answer? That's easy, the D2x of course! Just kidding...



I think this is the wrong line of thought. Cameras do not "become obsolete" just because a new model was introduced. They are not like computers, a 3 years old computer is obsolute because it cannot run today's software. A 3 years old camera on the other hand can take the exact same pictures it took 3 years ago.

The real question you need to ask is what particular features are the most important for your shooting style. If it is resolution, viewfinder size and autofocus speed go with the top of the line models. If it is excellent quality, but you don't mind small viewfinders or less than lightining fast AF, go with the lower end cameras. I really think that any dSLR of today's market can deliver excellent quality pictures. Are those pictures publishable? This depends a lot more on the photographer than the equipment.

Luiz

I would actually look at this another way. I would equate it to racing and horsepower.

The question is never how fast can you go. It is how fast can you afford to go!

The 3 camera's you are choosing between have 3 distinct levels of performance. All will take excellent photographs. Choose the one you feel gives you what you need/want "for the money".

If cost is really of no concern, the D2X is an amazing camera. If the $5K price tag kills it, then the D200 should give you most of what the D2X has to offer for less than $2K.

Lastly, if you are feeling like this is a LOT of cash to be putting in a box and taking underwater, then the D70 is a fine camera, and can get you shots that would make anyone proud.

If your main concern is not buying new housings every couple years, look at the Canon 1Ds line - they keep the same body design between the 1D/1Ds/1D Mark II/1Ds Mark II/etc. so you get away from that problem. If your concern is that you "have an investment in Nikon lenses" check out the forum topics on this site directed towards that - in my own opinion, having lenses already for one camera type already doesn't justify not switching brands, especially if you are looking at a long-term investment. I made a switch from Nikon to Canon when I went digital (despite the lenses I already had) because at the time I decided Canon's digital offering were vastly superior to what Nikon offered. You may decide this is still the case or that what you might save in housings in the future justifies the switch - just some food for thought.

The main decision with these models is what are your needs for land photography. If they are minimal and you only or mainly do underwater work I think the D70 is a smart move. The flash sync is good, cost is low. you don't need 7 -10 frames per second like a D2h or D2x. You don't need dynamic auto focusing and a lot of other features of the high end models that will be dropping fast in value. I know some land photographers that find the detail in the 12megapixel cameras picking up extreme detail in faces and blemishes and pores in the skin causing more time in photoshop to correct. I wonder if that means more backscatter in UW images, and don't forget the large raw files to work with with 12mpx. I have made my mind up to keep my d100 (a used one is not a bad choice either). It is more rugged than the d70 but is missing the new flash features I wish I had. If I get a D200 (much smarter buy than the d2x hands down expecially for U.W.) or wait for the D300 or whatever I will still keep the D100 - it will be worth far less if it flooded and as it gets beat up on the salt water. The lenses are what really needs protecting. A good lens and a 6mpx camera can give great results just look at the galleries here. A 12mpx will allow major cropping with good detail, and major poster size prints. It's the freakin' housings that are killing us U.W guys. Digital cameras and housingings are like cars being driven of the lot the value plumets every day.

Hi Sylvie,

My advice would be to get the best camera you can afford. This will allow you to grow with it, honing your skills and improving how you make use of its advanced features over time.

A camera does not become obsolete from the simple fact that a newer model is made available. On the other hand, it is extremely frustrating to find that your creativity is limited by the functionalities of your camera, thus requiring you to upgrade sooner than you should.

Hope this helps.
Mathieu

i have a d70 i use in a nexus housing. its given me fabulous results. i also own a d2x. its incredible, but when i cansider my needs, i have not been willing to spend another 4000 for a housing for the d2x. i shoot for my own pleasure. im able to make beautiful prints from the d70, and its cost is more reasonable for me , if there is such a thing. consider your needs, and expectations, and what is cost effective for you.

I shoot a D70 in an Ike housing and love it. If I were starting over from scratch today, I would probably go with the D200. But for one reason only, the larger view finder.
Will I replace the D70 with the D200? I doute it, the 70's performace will be much greater than my skills for sometime to come. I can only hope that in the near future my skills do call for the upgrade.
Also when I show my friends some shots from the D70 and they go WOW!, isn't that what its all about?
DSDO
Stephen

The D200 is 90% of the D2X for over $3000 less. I do not think it is worth going for the D2X with its higher price tag only for a few specific features...only to bear the burden of the extra weight. you might want to check out the specific features on the nikon website and see if they pertain to your needs.

for the most part, D200's are still only pre-ordered. I'd wait until they come out and give it a month or so for three reasons:

1) you'll be able to see some in-depth reviews from actual production models
2) the price of the D2X will drop
3) any first-round production issues will get worked out

So I would go for the D200 because 1)I don't need the D2x, 2) the weather sealing and a few other features make the D200 far superior to the D70s for my needs.

If you use (or WANT to use) autofocus, I am not sure that I agree with the last statement. The D200 will have "Cam-1000" autofocus.

Many of us are used to "Cam-900", and I don't expect Cam-1000 to compete with the low light capabilities of Cam-2000 found on the D2X.

I think that if you are asking the question then you should get the D70. It is an excellent camera. The more expensive DSLRs are only worth the money if you really need the extra quality, and the quality of the D70 is great for most applications.

Alex

The question is what housing will go with the camera what ports. Lokk att the final price and deside..

Then the secon question is how you take photos. are u using strobes etc...

I have a D70s. Great camera but on the end I have see that this is not what I need.

Becauce i take only photos with available light sometines the AF system off the D70 work not in Low contrat, low Light conditions.

Then Pixels... If you crop you photos every pixel count... Imaging you have a great photo that just look crap if you put in as Poster on the wall


Just wait untill the D200 is out. They will be many testa about this camera and we will see if the new CAM1000 is powerfull or if the noice is better...

Lambis

I'm still gonna get the D2x, it's a long term investment and i'm to poor to buy cheap. theses machines last forever. the D70 is a great image maker, it's just not made for working day in day out. that being said the D200 spec sheet is quite an impresive one, I just need to take it for a spin before I have an opinion, like Howard Hughes said, look's good on paper but can it fly...

Cheer's

Sylvie tu est de quel endroit ?

Food for thought, isn't it? Like all of us, I want the best equipment that I cannot afford. The D2X is the top of the heap for sure.

But there are issues of weight and bulk as well as cost. Much though I would love a D2X, it is just so much extra weight and volume to tote - especially for someone who does not make their living from them. I have enough problems aleady sweet-talking my way through check-ins. I suspect a D2X outfit would just push the envelope too far.

And cost: sell a kidney? I really want to have two bodies with my housing for the inevitable disaster and so I have a top-side body to use too during my trips. The cost of a two body D2X set-up is scary.

So my D100s work just fine for the moment; the D200 looks terrific and well worth checking out and, ha, affordable

And, yes, a brace of D2Xs: in an ideal, budget-less, limitless airline baggage-free world.

Good on paper but can it fly... Jean you make me smile every day.!!!!

Sometimes we humans have a crazy virus and whant to have the best of the best of the best. Best cars, Best Hifi (like me), Best Cameras...

Its whant you need, you and not the others. If you take a camera apart you soon realise if the camera is working or not for you.

Last year was e great experience for me on this field.
Now that I am using the camera more and better I realize what I am missing. The only think that I do is to find it without to pay to much money.

Off cource I love to have a D2X. I realy do. Its a working mashine with great Bues and a kick ass AF system but if I find a similar camera that can do 90% of what the D2X do I go with it and save the money to drink bier with Alex and the others :-)

Lambis

Thanks everybody for taking the time to help me.
Right now my needs do not exceed the D70 (my days working with a reflex set up are 15 years away at the time dreaming that I could upgrade to the F4 but too poor of a student, LOL). Anyway I want to be sure that in 2 years from now I'm still going to be happy with my camera. I want it to be a long love story so it looks like I'm going to wait for the first few reports on the D200. I'm sure we will be seeing some on this forum. It might be a silly thing but I like the idea of a not so heavy camera. Recently I was strickly limited to 20kg of luggage and 5kg onboard. I guaranty you that this limit is reached amazingly fast with the dive equipment. Sometimes you can pay for the extra load, sometimes not anymore, and sometimes you don't want too (Air France recently was asking me 210 euros for 7 kg of extra luggage, going rate 30 euros per kg !!!!!). So right now I'm "streamlining" everything including camera if possible (Good thing that I dive only very warm water. so far clothes streamlining = 3 swimsuits = more space for the camera). Anyhow I guess that now I probably won't have a camera by the end of March but may be I will have picked some strobes by then and will go see the Similans with my little Sony T1 plus 2 oversized strobes for it !!! Don't laugh now, it is better than nothing !!!! So I guess my next post should be: what strobes should I get for my future D200 (most likely) or D2x. More work for you'all, sorry

Thanks again
Sylvie

P.S.: Petit message pour Jean.
Je suis originaire de Bourgogne mais j'habite au Mississippi depuis 12 ans deja. Je n'ai pas encore eu le plaisir d'aller a Montreal mais j'ai l'impression de connaitre un peu grace a TV5. J'ai un ami d'enfance qui habite la-bas alors peut-etre que je finirai par aller voir

Hi Sylvie,

Wetpixel members have provided geat advices and insights on the never ending search for the perfect tool.

In my film days, I remember dreaming about buying a Hasselbald SWC fitted in its housing. The quality of medium format was a constant lure. Each time I had this "urge" my best half, quite an apt photographer herself and a down-to-earth person, kept saying: If 35mm is good enough for Nat. Geo. it should be good enough for you!

And on this subject, I would direct you to the website of photographer Joe McNally (www.joemacnally.com) and suggest you have a look at his "Taking Flight" special project. First ever all-digital story published in NGM... shot with a D1x... and a D100 for some images...

Obviously, using the best possible camera may lend more possibilities, but learning how to use it and practicing is paramount for 99% of those who venture u/w.

Obviously, other factors come in to play, especially the housing/lenses/accessories and, also, the ever changing and improving cameras coupled with economics. However, the most important of all is that you enjoy taking pictures u/w, that your system allows you to evolve as a photographer and that you are happy with your results.

To make it short: Enjoy !

Michel

Hey Sylvie you come up to Montreal, me casa es tu casa, me and my wife have a guess room for the travelling one. bienvenue en tout temps ! the more I get to know the D200 the more I say, get one it's awesome for the price. I have a awkward feeling the damm D200 might make me (possibly but not likely) regret mortgaging my future, my failing liver and my yet to be conceived first born (unlikely, but hey Chaplin had one at 80 something) for a D2x. C'est la vie !

Bourgogne, beau pays !

Lambis my good friend, I suspect that would cost you more than a D2x

I thing you are right Jean :-)

But on the other side we will have a hell of a time

Well, well, well, I just read the gossiping of Alex on the D200 and I can see the lust in all of you boy's eyes . What happened to all those nice advices on taking time to choose something that would fit my needs, wait for the first few field trial, ..... LOL As soon as the candies are out there is no way to hold you'all back, brain freeze !!!! Very very funny. Well you've got company I like toys too !!! And the D200 is looking good. I probably will wait to see the next number of Chasseur d'image as they will have a full review on the D200. So I might be able to get the D200 before the end of march but will I be able to get a housing and which one ?????? The only thing I'm sure of is the bank account is going to suffer OH what the heck !!!!! We only live once and 17 years ago I was told I could never ever dive so I've got a lot of catch up to do but so far it is not bad, 3 continents for my first year, only 2 more to go .
Jean thanks for the invitation, it goes both ways, but I never have many candidates willing to come to Mississippi. Come on, visibility is less than a feet and you have all those cute catfish around what do you want more ??? I can add a little blues on top of that to make it better if you want.
At this point I'll take anybody who is willing to come visit, LOL

Sylvie

BTW I forgot to tell that I have a D200 in backorder....
I am just in the list , Number 150 in Sweden. Dont need to buiy it but I was thinking that maybe is smart to do it .

Now is the housings that are we waiting. How will be fast enough to make a great housing without to forget to pout all the buttons :-)

Off cource some in Black or Ferrarired or ...why not.. Cammo look

Lambis