The D200 has been announced in several web sites around the net. For full specs and a preview check:

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1...productNr=25235

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond200/

Looks like it will be a great UW camera. Now, to the housings!

Alleluia

One thing that I am really pleased to see is that the AF sensor grouping options are the same as on the D2X (even though the AF is a different MultiCAM). Once you have learned to use them these different AF groupings all have their roles to play in getting different types of shots. Which ones you use for which types of subjects depends on how you shoot and how you compose. But I regularly switch between then during dives as I encounter different subjects.

The big LCD looks very handy too.

Alex

I saw a D200 price tag mentioned somewhere of $1700. I wonder if we will get a price war in this area of the market (5D country)? I can't see that building the higher MPixel chip is dramatically more expensive than current chips, so I'd guess that there is some room for the manufacturers to reduce prices which should be good for everyone!

I spoke to both Seacam and Subal at Antibes and this camera is obviously a major priority for both companies. In fact I think nearly all the manufacturers will have a go at the D200. I think the D100 had 13 different housing options? Maybe the D200 can beat this?

Alex

One thing I haven't seen anyone comment on is the fact it has a CCD and not a CMOS sensor. Anythoughts?

Alex

Alex, I noticed that too, and I was expecting it to have a high flash sync speed, maybe 1/500 like the D70. But the specs list it as 1/250.

Luiz

Well, now that we know the specs, here is a list of UW related improvements over the D70 and D100:

1. Larger and brighter viewfinder (almost the same size as the D2x). I want to elaborate on this, it is a huge improvement. The viewfinders on the D100 and D200 have the same coverage of 95%, but the magnification is 0.94x in the D200 as opposed to only 0.80x on the D100.
2. Larger LCD
3. Better AF (although we don't know how much better)
4. Larger buffer (edit: only compared to the D100)
5. MP count
6. ISO 100

Did I miss something? I think it is worth an upgrade, but again, only if those features are important to the kind of photos you take.

Will the CCD sensor perform as good as a CMOS sensor? Until the D200 is in someone hand could someone tell if the sensor could do sunburst like the D2X?

Luiz, I agree with you that the buffer is an improvement over the D100, but the D70 and all other more recent DSLRs aren't really buffer limited in normal UW shooting.

Alex

We got our pricing from Nikon this morning, retail MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) is $1,699.95. The 18-200 AF-S DX VR lens will retail for $699.95.

Low light focusing ability is supposed to be very good. At least on Nikon paper that I saw, there was some kind of measurement that supposed to show that D200's low light focusing ability is better than Canon 5D. I did not see the data on how it compares to D2X and have absolutely no idea how that would apply to real world situation since I am not familiar with that measurement/spec but it was something that the Nikon distributor pointed out to me specifically.

I think Nikons generally have better low light focusing compared to their Canon competitors - that is why Nikon go on about it! Canon prefer to talk about high ISO noise reduction.

If I was a land photographer I wouldn't let it the AF bother me, as I would want to be shooting in good light anyway. Underwater it is important - especially for deeper or murkier waters.

Alex

http://www.ritzcamera.com/webapp/wcs/store...ductId=13343555

Amazing, they are already taking pre-orders. I think this camera will sell a lot.

CCD or CMOS doesn't matter to me, but it was dissapointing to see that the flash sync was only at 1/250. I too was expecting higher thinking that the main reason for going to CCD was to get one stop higher flash sync. Non-TTL housings can still make use of the 1/2000-1/8000 speeds though with the electronic shutter.

On another note, I noticed the attachment size on the new 18-200 VR lens is 72mm Looks like I get to carry around a new step up ring. This is the only one I don't have yet. Why couldn't they just have added on a few mm and make it the 77mm standard?

Also noted that minimum focus is 20 in. So if anyone is interested in housing this one it would need a diopter (and a 72-77mm step up ring if you want to use the one for your 12-24mm ) My interest in this lens is for backpacking nature photography.

Dave,

Did you also get pricing indications on the new SU-800 unit and the iTTL closeup flash kits?? Not that I'm thinking of housing them, but I am intrigued for topside use.

TIA

I like the price point! This camera will put significant pricing pressure on the Canon 5D.

The reviewers are comparing the new D200 to the Canon 5D and I think rightly so. Canon is going to have a hard time selling the 20D to folks that don't have a DSLR yet and don't want to spend >$3,000 on a camera.

At $1,700, the D200 is a helluva camera. Thom Hogan is calling it the "digital F100" complimentary to the D2x. I agree.

Cheers
James

While at $1,700.00 Nikon will surely sell every D200 they can produce, I don't think you'll see Canon 20D sales dip much. Especially wiht Canon recent rebates, plus the fact that so many pros and semi-pros have used this model to produce stunning images.

As far as comparing to the Canon 5D, maybe......At 12.8 MP plus fulll frame, same improved bigger viewfinder, etc. the Cano 5D will still sell like hotcakes...Maybe not in the UW world as much, bu in general Canon will sell mucho' 5Ds.....

I might expect many EOS 1D series shooters to consider the 5D camera as a lighter weight alternative, lower cost professional tool, too.

YMMV

David Haas
Lowly little Rebel XT shooter

Yeah!!!
The ports for my Light & Motion D100 housing might still have a bright future in front of them.

I really don't think it compares to the 5D either. They are vastly different.

It's more of a 20D competitor than anything else. It's DX cropped camera. The main difference are 2 more Mpixels, ~$400 higher cost, a couple of nice features like RGB histogram, and the yet to be tested noise and image sharpness.

The 5D cost 2x as much, almost entirely due to the FF sensor.

I think it's now almost certain the Canon 20D replacement will have 10 - 12 Mpixel. I'm not happy to see the Megapixel race continue. I'd rather see them trade off sensor resolution for better noise and dynamic range.

Hi Herb (and Dave) The really nice features - and the ones that I think set the D200 well apart from the 20D - are hard to pin down. They mainly have to do with "settings" which are hard to describe - perhaps Alex can help here. See this thread and posts by Thom for some of the details:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=15674863

Cheers
James

I agree with you James (and with Thom). On paper, the D200 specs are much more similar to the 5D than to the 20D. For specs I mean both UW related and non-UW related specs, like viewfinder and LCD size, FPS, build quality, etc.

The only advantages that I see on the 5D (compared to the D200) are the full frame sensor (which doesn't bother me because Nikon does make the 10.5 fisheye) and the 2 extra megapixels (which aren't that much). This is indeed a very competitive camera, and I think it will certainly slow down even D2x sales.

For UW shooting I think that the comparison with the 5D is fair because of the lack of the fisheye on the 20D. Fisheyes are very important for creating space in UW shooting. Look at the first and second place portfolios at Antibes if you doubt the importance of fisheyes for serious UW shooting. Also in terms of megapixels 10 is closer to 12, than 8 is closer to 10. But I do agree with Herb that the Megapixel marketing race is annoying and distracts from more important issues.

Anyway I actually think that Nikon and Canon have slightly different strategies with their product lines and the D200 falls between the 20D and 5D. So they fit together in a very neat 5D>D200>20D order.

The AF options on the D200 look very interesting from my Nikon experience. But the really important factor in making use of these is how fast the AF of the MultiCam-1000 is. And we don't know that yet.

Alex

does the high(er) megapixel DX-sensor choice for this camera mean that Nikon have made their choice for the DX format?

I really hope you're right on this one, I'd love to see the Titan D200! I'm reasonably sure they'd redesign the dome port to accomodate the 10.5 lens.

The R1C1 Wireless Close-Up Speedlight Kit with the SU-800 will sell for $679.95 and the R1 (same kit less the SU-800) will sell for $429.95

I dont see how the D200 will be closer in resolution to the 5D than it is to the 20D.

My math puts it exactly between the two by pixels. 10.2 is 25% more than 8.2 and 12.8 is 24% more than 10.2.

But then the 5D with it's larger pixels should have at least slightly better per pixel sharpness, puting the D200 closer to the 20D when it comes to actual resolving power.

But then the 5D should be better at 2x the cost.

I think the 5D vs D200 comparison is the same as the 5D vs 20D comparison. In both cases it is clear that the 5D is a superior camera. But is the difference enough to compensate for a price that is 2x or 3x as expensive.

The 5D vs D200 debait is much more about price vs performance than it is about performance.

And I think that the D200 will be a clear winner when it comes to price vs performance. I know that if the D200 was released at the same time as the 5D, I would have a D200 right now....So I do think that it will cut into 5D sales as much as 20D sales.

Here are two interesting links. A video by CNET that gives us a nice sense of size:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Nikon_D200/4505-65...l?tag=cnetfd.sd

And the 24 page final PDF in English, with some samples:

ftp://ftp.nikon-euro.com/Brochures/XkDB9X...pg_Final_EN.pdf

Nikon seems to be making a lot of fuss about comparing D200 to 5D and pretty much ignored 20D in their documents that I saw.
Feature wise, I think that it is definitely on par with 5D or better in many respect. Of course the big question is how well the 10.2 mp CCD cropped sensor will compare to 5D full frame sensor.
Personally I think it should be similar to comparing D2X to 1Ds MkII.
I think Nikon did their homework well. If they only aim to compete with 20D, they are in serious trouble, I think.

I imagine Canon will very shortly (before D200 shipment?) intro a successor to their 20D that offers increased resolution, bigger display and other new features. In fact, they've probably been sitting on this model since the 20D has had no real competition since introduction. Within a year, I expect a FF successor to the 5D that is smaller, faster and cheaper. Still, the D200 looks to be wonderful, albeit late, successor to the D100, and an easy upgrade path for UW D100/D70 shooters.

Bad news for high-speed sync lovers. From Rob Galbraith:

"We did learn that, unlike all current and previous CCD-based Nikon digital SLR cameras back to the D1, the shutter in the D200 is fully-responsible for controlling the exposure time. For photographers who rarely use non-dedicated flash units, this won't mean much. For those who shoot sports with Elinchrom or other studio strobes, as we do, this means it won't be possible to cheat the sync speed well above 1/250th with this camera. High-speed flash synchronization is possible only with a compatible Nikon Speedlight."

Cheers
James

Rob has never met Ike

Karl

They can probabaly decode the Nikon link. However, to make it useful, you will need a MUCH bigger strobe than the DS125.

What am I missing here? Rob is saying that the D200 does NOT have an electronic/mechanical shutter like all past Nikon cameras. I don't think Ike can change that...

Cheers
James

I think they mean that Ikelite can change their strobes to function in high-speed sync, like the Nikon speedlights do. The secret is making the strobe stay on long enough to iluminate the entire sensor. But that would require more power, and I think that's why Herb said a strobe larger than the DS125 would be necessary.

Ah, interesting.

The way Canon does high speed sync is for the strobe to fire a series of pulses as the shutter opening passes over the sensor. I would think that this would be possible with existing strobes, provided the "software" is there.

It's not going to be as easy as taping over the hotshoe like you can do w/ the D70...

Cheers
James

Luiz, you got my my feeble attempt at humor and an "atta boy" for one of our sponsors....

Sorry Karl, it's been a long day...

James

It's not actually impossible. You just have to get use to diving with strobes the size of small jet engines.

You mean just slightly bigger than my SS200s, right? But seriously, I think I got some pretty good sun bursts even with the limited 1/250 sync speed of the D2x. The problem is knowing how well the D200's CCD will handle sun bursts.

No sunbursts and only at 100 ISO, but this is a nice gallery of samples from the D200 in Argentina.

Gallery

Looks pretty good to me in terms of shadow noise and grain (or lack thereof).

Thanks Anthony,

Apparently that link in pbase is down, but Nikon has posted some of those samples on its website here:

http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/di...d200/sample.htm

Luiz

I'm sooooo tired of my D100!

I've almost upgraded to the D2X a couple of times but I think I'll go with the D200 for no other reason than it better fits my budget. However, I want the darn thing as soon as possible! I called B&H to see if I can get on a pre-order list. They're not doing that. Does anyone have a good recommendation on a trustworthy online store that would likely be first in line wth reliable D200 shipments?

Hi David, I think the largest stores are the ones that will receive shipments first (and more cameras). B&H usually sends an e-mail to indicate that an item is in stock, you can do that with them. Alternatively, Adorama and Ritz are taking pre-orders, but I don't know how much they are charging for it (if the total value or something else).

Luiz

Thanks. That's sort of what I figured. I guess I'm just being impatient.

Blatant Plug: How about considering one of your Wetpixel Sponsor's both Backscatter and us at Underwater Photo-Tech are Nikon Dealer's.

I didn't know that Dave , I thought you guys sold only housings (and I'm sure many members thought the same). Let's buy from our sponsors everyone! Without their contributions it would be very hard to keep the site running!

Thanks Luiz! <advertisement>Actually we're a full line dealer for both Canon and Nikon.</advertisement>

Just ordered from Underwater Photo-Tech.